Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[AmyStrange]

Hard to say. Depends on the materials, how thick they are and strength of the signal. Stone walls absolutely can block and reflect radio signals. It all depends on their thickness and the type of stone. Also, buildings have windows. Note that light waves and radio waves go right through windows. But you can block light by making the glass opaque. But radio waves depending on the frequency is probably not going to be affected.

The science behind all of this is pretty fascinating.

Not to derail this thread, but about twenty years ago, a couple got lost in the middle of nowhere in a snowstorm here in the PNW and were literally snowed in and couldn't move their car. The wife sent a text message that couldn't be sent, but through some mysterious phenomenon (that I can't recall the name of) the signal finally got picked up, sent, and received by it's recipient.

This was hours after it was sent.

It took days of searching through cell tower data to find the one that had finally received the text, and they were able to pinpoint approximately where the signal was coming from, and the search party went there to find them.

Long story short, the husband tried to back track his way but froze to death in his attempt. They found the wife, and I think they had children with her, but a lot of this is lost in my memory.

I'd look for the original news article that I got all this from, but unless anyone wants to see it, I'm too lazy to look for it.

 

[acbytesla]

I know what you mean, my job in the Air Force was as an ECM tech (Electronic Counter Measures, radar detection and jamming), but that was fifty years ago, and I forgot a lot of that crap.

Did you know that a Hollywood starlet invented frequency hopping radio communications? Which is foundational for both cellular telecommunications and Wi-Fi.

 

[acbytesla]

Not to derail this thread, but about twenty years ago, a couple got lost in the middle of nowhere in a snowstorm here in the PNW and were literally snowed in and couldn't move their car. The wife sent a text message that couldn't be sent, but through some mysterious phenomenon (that I can't recall the name of) the signal finally got picked up, sent, and received by it's recipient.

This was hours after it was sent.

It took days of searching through cell tower data to find the one that had finally received the text, and they were able to pinpoint approximately where the signal was coming from, and the search party went there to find them.

Long story short, the husband tried to back track his way but froze to death in his attempt. They found the wife, and I think they had children with her, but a lot of this is lost in my memory.

I'd look for the original news article that I got all this from, but unless anyone wants to see it, I'm too lazy to look for it.

That sounds a lot like the Kim family tragedy.

What happened: The Kim family—James, Kati, and their two young daughters—took a wrong turn while traveling on Thanksgiving weekend. They became stranded in their car on a remote, snow-covered logging road in Josephine County.
Survival: For more than a week, the family survived in their car by running the engine for heat, and later, by burning tires.
Search and discovery: After eight days, James Kim left on foot to get help, but died of hypothermia. Two days later, Kati and her daughters were spotted by a search helicopter and rescued.
Impact: The incident highlighted the dangers of relying solely on GPS in unfamiliar and remote areas, and it remains one of the largest search-and-rescue missions in Oregon's history. But not familiar with the cell phone text.

 

[AmyStrange]

Did you know that a Hollywood starlet invented frequency hopping radio communications? Which is foundational for both cellular telecommunications and Wi-Fi.

Yup, Hedy Lamarr, a pretty famous actress for us old timers.

I put a little poster up about it on my FB page just a couple of days ago:

 

[AmyStrange]

That sounds a lot like the Kim family tragedy.

Impact: The incident highlighted the dangers of relying solely on GPS in unfamiliar and remote areas, and it remains one of the largest search-and-rescue missions in Oregon's history. But not familiar with the cell phone text.

You made me go look it up you bastard (just kidding):


FROM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

Although the Kims had a cellular phone with them, their remote location in the mountains was out of range of a cellular network, rendering the phone unusable for voice calls. Despite it being so, it would play a key role in their rescue. Cell phone text messages may go through even when there appears to be no signal, in part because text messaging is a store-and-forward service. Two Edge Wireless engineers, Eric Fuqua and Noah Pugsley, contacted search and rescue authorities offering their help in the search. On Saturday, December 2, they began searching through the data logs of cell sites, trying to find records of repeaters to which the Kims' cell phone may have connected. They discovered that on November 26, 2006, at around 1:30am, it made a brief automatic connection to a cell site near Glendale, Oregon, and retrieved two text messages. Temporary atmospheric conditions, such as tropospheric ducting, can briefly allow radio communications over larger distances than normal. Through the data logs, the engineers determined that the cell phone was in a specific area west of the cellular tower. They then used a computer program to determine which areas in the mountains were within a line-of-sight to the cellular tower. This narrowed the search area tremendously, and finally focused rescue efforts on Bear Camp Road.

 

[AmyStrange]

You made me go look it up you bastard (just kidding):


FROM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

It's also a lesson that if your ever in the same situation and can't get a signal, a text message might get through.

I also apologize to everyone here for this sidetrack, and I'll end it here.

 

[acbytesla]

Yup, Hedy Lamarr, a pretty famous actress for us old timers.

I put a little poster up about it on my FB page just a couple of days ago:

This probably sounds weird, but I follow those that were deserving, but who's accomplishments never received the recognition they should of. Tesla was one of those. More than a few great women could be described that way. Rosalind Franklin, Lise Meitner and Hedy Lamarr all should have won the Nobel Prize, but didn't.

 

[AmyStrange]

This probably sounds weird, but I follow those that were deserving, but who's accomplishment never received the recognition they should of. Tesla was one of those. More than a few great women could be described that way. Rosalind Franklin, Lise Meitner and Hedy Lamarr all should have won the Nobel Prize, but didn't.

Yup, and there's also all the woman who worked writing code until "men" decided it was their job.

 

[acbytesla]

Yup, and there's also all the woman who worked writing code until "men" decided it was their job.

There are lots of women scientists that excuse the expression, were screwed by our male dominated culture. I know this and find it sad. Anyone and everyone deserves the opportunity to succeed and should be recognized when they do. I wouldn't call it white or male guilt But I know the advantages of being a white man in our society. And how lucky I am.

 

[AmyStrange]

There are lots of women scientists that excuse the expression, were screwed by our male dominated culture. I know this and find it sad. Anyone and everyone deserves the opportunity to succeed and should be recognized when they do. I wouldn't call it white or male guilt But I know the advantages of being a white man in our society. And how lucky I am.

I agree, and then (just to bring it back on topic) there are those stupid idiots who say a woman is guilty of murder without any real solid evidence except opinions, lies, and mischaracterizations.

She and her boyfriend are still getting screwed.

 

[acbytesla]

I agree, and then (just to bring it back on topic) there are those stupid idiots who say a woman is guilty of murder without any real solid evidence except opinions, lies, and mischaracterizations.

She and her boyfriend are still getting screwed.

And to flip this a bit. I don't give quarter to women because they are women.

If the evidence was there to convict Amanda, then she deserves to be vilified. But the evidence is crap. She and Raffaele didn't deserve this. But I stopped feeling sorry for her years ago. She is a smart educated woman living on Vashon Island (At least she was living on the island with her husband the last time I paid any attention) There are lots of innocent people in jail. She is no longer one of them. And that's a nice place to live.

 

[TomG]

IIRC, The Wind tower antenna while farther away from the cottage, had a perfect line of sight to both the cottage and an escape route possibly used by Rudy. But because there was a very close antenna less than a block away, there was little reason that the Wind tower would be used. Except that the cottage was made of stone. And that might come into play. Also, the carrier she uses might prioritize their own equipment.
.

Thanks for that.

I'm not techy on the subject at all

The point I was making was that the WIND (Monte La Guadia) tower had been accessed multiple times by Meredith's English phone previously, so it wasn't unique. This has been used to argue that it could be accessed by Meredith while at VDP7. It appears to me that Meredith was not always at VDP7 when she phoned home; she was out and about, even quite late at night. According to the experts, the other best cell towers serving VDP7 are Piazza Forte Braccio and Via dell'Acquila; however, they are not featured at all. The Piazza Luppatelli tower is the one most used, indicating that she was at VDP7 most of the time when she phoned home. The overall pattern suggests that the reason other towers were accessed is that they served the places Meredith frequented, like bars, clubs, discos and her English friends. I was looking for confirmation of that.

www.themurderofmeredithkercher.net/docupl/filelibrary/docs/logs/2007-11-06-Log-cellphone-Wind-KercherM-English.pdf

 

[acbytesla]

Thanks for that.

I'm not techy on the subject at all

The point I was making was that the WIND (Monte La Guadia) tower had been accessed multiple times by Meredith's English phone previously, so it wasn't unique. This has been used to argue that it could be accessed by Meredith while at VDP7. It appears to me that Meredith was not always at VDP7 when she phoned home; she was out and about, even quite late at night. According to the experts, the other best cell towers serving VDP7 are Piazza Forte Braccio and Via dell'Acquila; however, they are not featured at all. The Piazza Luppatelli tower is the one most used, indicating that she was at VDP7 most of the time when she phoned home. The overall pattern suggests that the reason other towers were accessed is that they served the places Meredith frequented, like bars, clubs, discos and her English friends. I was looking for confirmation of that.

www.themurderofmeredithkercher.net/docupl/filelibrary/docs/logs/2007-11-06-Log-cellphone-Wind-KercherM-English.pdf

Maybe. But I'm not sure of that. Nor do I think you necessarily can be.

IIRC, the Piazza Lupatelli cell tower was easily the closest cell antenna and it makes sense to say that confirms the likelihood, even high probability she was at VP7. But that is the best one can ever do with this. The two most important factors (usually) is power of the broadcast cell signal, line of sight to the antenna and cell traffic. But another factor might be the cellular provider. You see, I believe Meredith used the Wind cellular provider and antennas used might be affected by that

 

[Stacyhs]

Speaking of cell towers, Massei contradicted himself more than once when he claimed that Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 did NOT service Sollecito's apartment and claimed that Knox had to have been outside Sollecito's apartment when she received Lumumba's text not to come to work that night which proved she lied (bolding and capitalization mine):

Massei, pg 322 English translation:

− 00:57:20: Amanda’s mobile phone sent an SMS, using the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 (which does not provide coverage to Sollecito’s house, since it pertains to Via Ulisse Rocchi, Piazza Cavallotti, etc. and therefore at the heart of Perugia’s historic center). This consisted of the SMS which the young woman exchanged with Raffaele at the end of the Halloween evening to arrange meeting up with her boyfriend and be accompanied home

“-20:18:12: Amanda receives the SMS sent to her by Patrick Lumumba….. At the time of reception the phone connected to the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3, WHOSE SIGNAL DOES NOT REACH RAFFAELE SOLLECITO’S HOUSE. The young woman was therefore far [i.e. absent] from Corso Garibaldi 30 when the SMS reached her, as she was walking in an area which was shown to be served by the Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 cell. This point of her route could correspond to Via U. Rocchi, to Piazza Cavallotti, to Piazza IV Novembre, bearing in mind that Lumumba’s pub is located in Via Alessi, and that Amanda Knox would have had to travel along the above-mentioned roads and the piazza in order to reach the pub

But he then contradicts himself several times (pg. 323)

-12.08.44…Amanda calls Romanelli, Filomena….;th mobile phone connects to Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3 (WHICH COVERS SOLLECITO’S HOUSE)

-12:11:54 …another call is made to Meredith’s English mobile phone number (the cell used is the one in Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3, THUS COMPATIBLE WITH SOLLECITO’S HOUSE)

12:12:35…Romanelli, Filomena calls Amanda Knox; Amanda receives the call connecting to the cell on Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 3, (STILL AT RAFFAELE’S HOUSE)

 

[Stacyhs]

A decades old case has just been solved due to DNA. Two boys, both aged 17, were initially tried and convicted of shooting and killing 4 teenage girls in Austin, TX in 1991. Both boys confessed to the murders and accused each other of being the actual killer. They both quickly retracted their confessions and said they were coerced by the police. One was sentenced to death then reduced to life in prison. However, both appealed and their convictions were overturned in 2009 when new DNA evidence identified the likely killer, Robert Brashers, now deceased. Brasher's DNA also connected him to the murders of 3 other people and the rape of a 14-year-old girl.

But, ya know, people never falsely confess and implicate other innocent people due to police coercion, right?

 

[whoanellie]

 

[Pacal]

This probably sounds weird, but I follow those that were deserving, but who's accomplishments never received the recognition they should of. Tesla was one of those. More than a few great women could be described that way. Rosalind Franklin, Lise Meitner and Hedy Lamarr all should have won the Nobel Prize, but didn't.

The book The Double Helix by Watson, although it is an interesting view about how how Science is actually done is, to put it mildly, rather nasty to Rosalind Franklin. And don't forget the misogyny!

 

[TomG]

Maybe. But I'm not sure of that. Nor do I think you necessarily can be.

IIRC, the Piazza Lupatelli cell tower was easily the closest cell antenna and it makes sense to say that confirms the likelihood, even high probability she was at VP7. But that is the best one can ever do with this. The two most important factors (usually) is power of the broadcast cell signal, line of sight to the antenna and cell traffic. But another factor might be the cellular provider. You see, I believe Meredith used the Wind cellular provider and antennas used might be affected by that

The more I read the spreadsheet data, the more perplexed I become. It's clear from the data that Meredith's English phone does connect with the Monte La Guadia WIND tower on multiple occasions, but the sector or cell data has been obscured. The Piazza Luppatelli tower handles the majority of the phone traffic, but it's also clear that the WIND tower seems to be handling Meredith's longer calls home. The testimony of Vodafone experts suggests that the other best towers for VDP7 are Piazza Forte Braccio and Via Dell Acquila; however, there is no indication that those two handled any of Meredith's calls home.

All of this seems to diminish the uniqueness of the SMS sent to Meredith's English phone at 22.13 on the night she was killed. Unless cell towers treat SMS transmissions differently.

You have Massei saying that the signal from 30064 (WIND) "can be received both at the level of Meredith’s bedroom window and in the courtyard of the cottage on Via della Pergola 7." However, it's not clear that he means the interior of Meredith's bedroom. Was Meredith in the habit of going outside when she was making calls home, and why did so many of the longer ones connect with the Monte La Guadia WIND tower? According to Massei, page 326, he concedes that a text from Meredith on 31st Oct at 18:27:50 was transmitted in VDP7 and connected with Piazza Luppatelli sector 7. So it appears that Meredith didn't necessarily need to go outside to make calls. Did Latella actually carry out tests within VDP7?

With so many variables, it's difficult to say with any certainty that the 22.13. SMS on 1st Nov was unique, although my understanding of the subject is pretty basic.

www.themurderofmeredithkercher.net/docupl/filelibrary/docs/logs/2007-11-06-Log-cellphone-Wind-KercherM-English.pdf

 

[acbytesla]

The more I read the spreadsheet data, the more perplexed I become. It's clear from the data that Meredith's English phone does connect with the Monte La Guadia WIND tower on multiple occasions, but the sector or cell data has been obscured. The Piazza Luppatelli tower handles the majority of the phone traffic, but it's also clear that the WIND tower seems to be handling Meredith's longer calls home. The testimony of Vodafone experts suggests that the other best towers for VDP7 are Piazza Forte Braccio and Via Dell Acquila; however, there is no indication that those two handled any of Meredith's calls home.

All of this seems to diminish the uniqueness of the SMS sent to Meredith's English phone at 22.13 on the night she was killed. Unless cell towers treat SMS transmissions differently.

You have Massei saying that the signal from 30064 (WIND) "can be received both at the level of Meredith’s bedroom window and in the courtyard of the cottage on Via della Pergola 7." However, it's not clear that he means the interior of Meredith's bedroom. Was Meredith in the habit of going outside when she was making calls home, and why did so many of the longer ones connect with the Monte La Guadia WIND tower? According to Massei, page 326, he concedes that a text from Meredith on 31st Oct at 18:27:50 was transmitted in VDP7 and connected with Piazza Luppatelli sector 7.
So it appears that Meredith didn't necessarily need to go outside to make calls.

She wouldn't have needed to go outside to make a call connecting through the Piazza Lupatelli cell antenna.

Did Latella actually carry out tests within VDP7?

If I remember his testimony correctly. Not from inside, but outside the various locations. .

With so many variables, it's difficult to say with any certainty that the 22.13. SMS on 1st Nov was unique, although my understanding of the subject is pretty basic.

www.themurderofmeredithkercher.net/docupl/filelibrary/docs/logs/2007-11-06-Log-cellphone-Wind-KercherM-English.pdf

I'm doing this entirely from memory so please forgive me if I get a few things wrong. I identified every cell tower and mapped out every location of them and drew lines of sight to various locations in town including VDP7.
Cell towers measure strength of signal and adapt to the changes during the call. In other words, a drop in signal strength and it will automatically switch to a different tower, And the logs don't reflect the change. A window is likely to barely obstruct a signal, but a stone wall might substantially obstruct a signal. Meredith's window in her bedroom had a perfect line of sight to the Wind tower. But move around in that bedroom and the signal might disappear.

I agree, it wasn't unique. And one look at that pdf file demonstrates that.

 

[TomG]

She wouldn't have needed to go outside to make a call connecting through the Piazza Lupatelli cell antenna.

Did Latella actually carry out tests within VDP7?

If I remember his testimony correctly. Not from inside, but outside the various locations. .


I'm doing this entirely from memory so please forgive me if I get a few things wrong. I identified every cell tower and mapped out every location of them and drew lines of sight to various locations in town including VDP7.
Cell towers measure strength of signal and adapt to the changes during the call. In other words, a drop in signal strength and it will automatically switch to a different tower, And the logs don't reflect the change. A window is likely to barely obstruct a signal, but a stone wall might substantially obstruct a signal. Meredith's window in her bedroom had a perfect line of sight to the Wind tower. But move around in that bedroom and the signal might disappear.

I agree, it wasn't unique. And one look at that pdf file demonstrates that.

Is the link below the C2 technology that Pelleri talks about? If that's the case, it's all I need. Basically, what we're saying is that it's irrelevant whether Meredith's English phone connnected with the Monte La Guadia WIND tower or not. The C2 algorithm will automatically find the tower that has the best signal for the phone. Am I making sense in layman's terms?

C2

C2 is the GSM cell reselection algorithm. Once the MS (Mobile Station) has camped onto a cell it will continue to assess the surrounding cells to ensure it is monitoring the cell that will offer the best radio connection. As the user moves the camped on cell may become unsuitable. This situation...

www.mpirical.com

http://amandaknoxcase.com/