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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Hercules56 said:
If your flag is soo horrible and racist why dont you change it?

However, Nazis and the KKK often wave American flags. But we didn't let them co-opt and take ownership of our flag.

Why have you guys allowed racists to co-opt your flag? Maybe you should just take it back.
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My personal view would be to get shot of flags altogether; many Brits, it seems to me, were not too bothered about it and the St George's cross is a nice simple symbol which was easy to co-opt by the flag shaggers and others.

And I didn't say the flag(s) are racist, but that their usage has a lot of racist connotations.

But if we didn't have those flags the facists, the far right and the neo-Nazis would find some other convenient symbol...Oooh I dunno, like co-opting something from Hindu-ism or messing around with numbers or co-opting Saxon or Scandinavian gods...
 
Hercules56 said:
On a semi-related topic,
Brits are being insulted and chastised for doing the unthinkable: waving the British or English flag.
WTF is going on over there?
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We don't fetishise our flags over here, people can fly them or not, entirely up to them. Sadly the red cross has often been closely associated with violent tribalism. Anything else you'd like to troll about?
 
Darat said:
We don't fetishise our flags over here, people can fly them or not, entirely up to them. Sadly the red cross has often been closely associated with violent tribalism. Anything else you'd like to troll about?
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Its not trolling, this is directly related to the loss of freedom of speech in Great Britain.
 
It's really a shame, because the limits of free speech is an interesting topic. If we could move away from this "let them openly plan to kill you or kill them" simpleton dichotomy, there's a lot of gray area to suss out.
 
To add to my last post...

I next to never identify as "English", despite being brought up in and living most of my life in England, so the St George's cross means nowt to me (why we use the symbol of a Cappadocian bod is beyond me); being born in Wales and being named after a non-English saint, having some mongrel ancestry, including from outside this archipelago, makes me reluctant to go "UK" or British.

Some of my mutterings about invasive Normans, the ancient and righteous Kingdom of Northumbria and the like are only partly a joke.

Union flag doesn't mean much to me.
 
Hercules56 said:
Should it be a crime to campaign to kill Nazis?
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People aren't "born" Nazis so it isn't the same thing i.e. they choose to become Nazis, to characterise themselves as Nazis it is not simply who they are. They are of course a danger to society so we should segregate them like we do with other people who choose to be a danger to society i.e. other criminals, but I don't believe in capital punishment so I would be campaigning against the sentence of capital punishment for being a criminal of any kind, whether that be a murderer, a thief or a Nazi. I do believe that Nazis can be deprogrammed so they stop being Nazis.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
My personal view would be to get shot of flags altogether; many Brits, it seems to me, were not too bothered about it and the St George's cross is a nice simple symbol which was easy to co-opt by the flag shaggers and others.
And I didn't say the flag(s) are racist, but that their usage has a lot of racist connotations.
But if we didn't have those flags the facists, the far right and the neo-Nazis would find some other convenient symbol...Oooh I dunno, like co-opting something from Hindu-ism or messing around with numbers or co-opting Saxon or Scandinavian gods...
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It goes beyond just racism - look at how the violent football yobs co-opted it as well.
 
Carrot Flower King said:
To add to my last post...

I next to never identify as "English", despite being brought up in and living most of my life in England, so the St George's cross means nowt to me (why we use the symbol of a Cappadocian bod is beyond me); being born in Wales and being named after a non-English saint, having some mongrel ancestry, including from outside this archipelago, makes me reluctant to go "UK" or British.

Some of my mutterings about invasive Normans, the ancient and righteous Kingdom of Northumbria and the like are only partly a joke.

Union flag doesn't mean much to me.
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Over here in the States, the flag really does inspire love and pride in our country, like in a borderline obsessive way. That's why the far right claims it- kinda hard to be mad at guys who just love their country.

Till you hear them speak. Then it's pretty easy.
 
By the way we have no problem with displaying our flags, for example at the recent coronation of our latest monarch:

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At some football thing:
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Hercules56 said:
Waving your national flag on your property should not be a controversial issue. It should be no different than growing grass on your lawn. The UK is very odd.
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In the UK, it seem that a person's understanding of the reasons why someone would wave their national flag would depend upon their preconceived perception of the person waving it i.e. a group of mums, dads and kids peacefully protesting the presence of hundreds of young male illegal immigrants being put up free in a four star hotel in their neighbourhood, will get labelled as "far-right thugs" by the Prime Minister.
 
Darat said:
People aren't "born" Nazis so it isn't the same thing i.e. they choose to become Nazis, to characterise themselves as Nazis it is not simply who they are. They are of course a danger to society so we should segregate them like we do with other people who choose to be a danger to society i.e. other criminals, but I don't believe in capital punishment so I would be campaigning against the sentence of capital punishment for being a criminal of any kind, whether that be a murderer, a thief or a Nazi. I do believe that Nazis can be deprogrammed so they stop being Nazis.
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You believe in punishing people and isolating them from society, absent committing an actual crime?
 
Darat said:
Which loss of freedom of speech? We have much stronger laws these days that protect our right to freedom of expression then when I was born.
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If you can go to jail for waiving a sign that says "Palestine Action", your freedom of speech is extremely limited.

If you can go to jail for misgendering someone, your freedom of speech is extremely limited.

If you can go to jail for simply saying something that offends or hurts feelings, of God forbid dehumanizes someone, than your Freedom of Speech is holding on by a thread.
 
smartcooky said:
In the UK, it seem that a person's understanding of the reasons why someone would wave their national flag would depend upon their preconceived perception of the person waving it i.e. a group of mums, dads and kids peacefully protesting the presence of hundreds of young male illegal immigrants being put up free in a
four star hotel in their neighbourhood, will get labelled as "far-right thugs" by the Prime Minister.
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:sdl:
 
Darat said:
No it isn't, it's seen as racism when it is being used by racists to promote their racism.

And by the way you do know your avatar is not an English flag?
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Just because the flag is waved by a racist, doesn't make the flag racist.

Why is that hard for you to understand?

If a Nazi waves a picture of a hamburger, does that make hamburgers racist?
 
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