Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

[Reformed Offlian]

I was responding to a series of posts starting at 2,122 which is why I included the "opined that Trump should be in prison" bit in that post.

You only quoted me, so I reasonably took your post as a response to me. I didn't bring up Trump until you did, whereupon you "tapped on your signature" as if I had done something wrong.

And this latest attempt at revision makes your complaint even more nonsensical. If Trump had already been in the conversation for some time, and you were already participating in that conversation, how is it *my* fault that Trump came up. Why should I not bring up Trump, when you already had been talking about him with other posters for several pages, and then mentioned him unbidden to me?

 

[AmyStrange]

If y'all (aka "youse guys") want to be technically accurate, you really can't call the fat clown and his maga weirdoes "NAZIS".

The correct term, for accuracy's sake, would be nazi-like, but that's just the writer in me.

Your mileage may vary of course.

 

[sackett]

....you'd have to decide if characterizing them as nazis is unfair. do you think that's an unfair characterization?

Let me horn in on that.

Yes, it is unfair -- to the historical Nazis. The real warmaking Nazis didn't snivel or haver or whine or retreat.
They jumped into uniform and buckled on their leather gear, and bellowed
their intentions everywhere; carried 'em out, too, with steadily increasing atrocity.
It took killing to put a final end to them, and two generations of horrified
rejection to shame and subdue their children and grandchildren. I say that because
I was obliged to know some of those.

These latter-day Magascum wouldnt make a pimple on a real
Nazi's ass -- and yes, by god I've even met a couple of genuine wartime
unrepentant old Herrenvolk. And yet, there's no blood on my hands.

So it's by way of flattery to call Krik and Thump and Stinky Miller nazis.
"Nazoid" is the most they deserve.

 

[d4m10n]

In retrospect, I find myself wondering whether characterizing the LGBTQ+ community, immigrants as trash\nobodies\undeserving of rights might have encouraged some people to think of them as unworthy of basic human rights such as life and liberty.

Didn't you find yourself wondering this before anyone got shot [at]?

No one on ISF is responsible for what some random nobody posts on Twitter or where ever the ◊◊◊◊ it is you're getting it from.

The meme is representative of a certain kind of thinking which lumps conservatives under the most extreme label available.

(Now that the search is back, do you think I'll have any trouble finding examples here at ISF?)

You only quoted me, so I reasonably took your post as a response to me.

I did not only quote you, I also quoted @Emily's Cat from #2,122.

Why should I not bring up Trump, when you already had been talking about him with other posters for several pages, and then mentioned him unbidden to me?

Bring him up all you like, I'm not going to help you derail this into yet another bitchfest about Trump.

damion seems to be going to great lengths to avoid addressing kirk's role in exacerbating political violence.

Kirk's role is not substantively different than any other MAGA influencer or even ordinary GOP politicians and activists (in every state) who endorsed the Jan 6th pardons and kept working to keep the party in power at any level. If you find yourself among these folks, then Kirk's messages and methods are probably worth talking about, because those guys all desperately need to reconsider their life choices.

If instead you typically find yourself among progressives or liberals, then you might want to ask whether there is anything we can do to pare back the violent ideation coming from our own side, such as the meme from a "random nobody" with only around 100K followers exhorting us solve fascism in the traditional 20th c. way.

 

[dirtywick]

Kirk's role is not substantively different than any other MAGA influencer or even ordinary GOP politicians and activists (in every state) who endorsed the Jan 6th pardons and kept working to keep the party in power at any level. If you find yourself among these folks, then Kirk's messages and methods are probably worth talking about, because those guys all desperately need to reconsider their life choices.

i agree, it’s a systemic issue coming from the official leadership and apparatus one side of the political spectrum. and i think since i need to live in the same place as them, its worth all of us talking about it

If instead you typically find yourself among progressives or liberals, then you might want to ask whether there is anything we can do to pare back the violent ideation coming from our own side, such as the meme from a "random nobody" with only around 100K followers.

i think you’ve departed from holding everyone to the same standard. which is good anyway, you really shouldn’t have to same expectations of randos and presidents. especially when it comes to accountability. if we can’t hold prominent people accountable, it’s hard to even come up with an answer to that

 

[d4m10n]

i think you’ve departed from holding everyone to the same standard.

The general standard is that we should avoid promoting political violence, but my message would be different if this was actually a pro-MAGA audience trying to justify TPUSA rhetoric instead of an anti-MAGA audience trying to pretend no one on their side bears any responsibility.

if we can’t hold prominent people accountable

We literally cannot hold Kirk accountable, unless the afterlife is much different than generally supposed.

 

[AmyStrange]

If instead you typically find yourself among progressives or liberals, then you might want to ask whether there is anything we can do to pare back the violent ideation coming from our own side, such as the meme from a "random nobody" with only around 100K followers exhorting us solve fascism in the traditional 20th c. way.

I understand where you're coming from, but the problem is that you don't really know if they're left, liberal, or democrat, or just someone like Ivan Harrison Hunter.

How are the dems supposed to fight against that crap?

Self-Described Member of “Boogaloo Bois” Sentenced to Prison for Riot Conviction

MINNEAPOLIS – A Texas man was sentenced today to 52 months in prison followed by three years of supervised release for rioting during the 2020 civil unrest, announced U.S. Attorney Andrew M. Luger.

According to court documents, Ivan Hunter, 24, admitted to traveling from San Antonio, Texas, to Minneapolis with the intent to participate in a riot. Hunter is a self-described member of the Boogaloo Bois, a loosely connected group of individuals who espouse violent anti-government sentiments. The term “Boogaloo” itself references the group’s belief in an impending second civil war in the United States that includes a violent uprising against the government.

On the night of May 28, 2020, within hours of arriving in Minneapolis, Hunter met up with other Boogaloo Bois members, obtained an AK-47 assault rifle, and blindly fired 13 rounds into the entryway of the Minneapolis Police Department’s Third Precinct building. At the time of the shooting there were other individuals, believed to be looters, still inside the building. Hunter’s actions were captured on surveillance video and law enforcement recovered from the scene discharged rifle casings consistent with an AK-47 style firearm. Hunter’s gunfire caused approximately $85,000 in damage to the building.

(SNIP)

 

[d4m10n]

I understand where you're coming from, but the problem is that you don't really know if they're left, liberal, or democrat, or just someone like Ivan Harrison Hunter.

I don't think we have to wait until we find out Robinson's personal politics to stop characterizing MAGA influencers as Nazis and promoting the "kill the Nazis" memes. I enjoyed Inglorious Basterds as much as the next (American) guy, but it's an historical revenge fantasy not a modern lifestyle choice.

 

[AmyStrange]

I don't think we have to wait until we find out Robinson's personal politics to stop characterizing MAGA influencers as Nazis and promoting the "kill the Nazis" memes. I enjoyed Inglorious Basterds as much as the next (American) guy, but it's an historical revenge fantasy not a modern lifestyle choice.

Like I've already explained in posted #2302:

If y'all (aka "youse guys") want to be technically accurate, you really can't call the fat clown and his maga weirdoes "NAZIS".

The correct term, for accuracy's sake, would be nazi-like, but that's just the writer in me.

Your mileage may vary of course.

 

[AmyStrange]

I don't think we have to wait until we find out Robinson's personal politics to stop characterizing MAGA influencers as Nazis and promoting the "kill the Nazis" memes. I enjoyed Inglorious Basterds as much as the next (American) guy, but it's an historical revenge fantasy not a modern lifestyle choice.

BUT, how do you know who's posting and promoting these memes, or are you just specifically picking on and ASSuming it's the dems for some reason?

 

[d4m10n]

I didn't mention Democrats at all.

 

[johnny karate]

This is the sort of claim which a skeptic might want to see supported with evidence.

One of Trump's signature campaign promises was to pardon the J6 insurrectionists, including violent cop-assaulting felons. It was a winning message.

What does Kirk's assassination have to do with holding powerful people to account?

It is unclear why you think anyone would answer your questions before you've answered theirs.

I think it's worthwhile to avoid rabbit-holing yet another thread to make it all about Trump.

You specifically requested evidence for a claim about Trump and only decided you didn't want to "make it all about Trump" after the evidence was provided and undercut your terrible argument.

 

[johnny karate]

If Pence had been a legless "little person," then maybe those "gallows" might have been a danger to him.

No one has argued that the gallows were the threat. It was the people who built it that were.

 

[d4m10n]

One of Trump's signature campaign promises was to pardon the J6 insurrectionists, including violent cop-assaulting felons.

I was asking about hanging Mike Pence in particular (IIRC) but since I don't see what any of this has to do with Kirk's killing I'll let it go.

 

[dirtywick]

The general standard is that we should avoid promoting political violence, but my message would be different if this was actually a pro-MAGA audience trying to justify TPUSA rhetoric instead of an anti-MAGA audience trying to pretend no one on their side bears any responsibility.

yeah, i see that. i don’t think your approach is very sensible or effective though.

We literally cannot hold Kirk accountable, unless the afterlife is much different than generally supposed.

this is a dodge.

 

[johnny karate]

The general standard is that we should avoid promoting political violence, but my message would be different if this was actually a pro-MAGA audience trying to justify TPUSA rhetoric instead of an anti-MAGA audience trying to pretend no one on their side bears any responsibility.

No one has pretended that.

We're just pointing out the glaring flaw in your pretense that inflammatory rhetoric has the same effect whether it comes from a random nobody on social media or a person who wields power and influence.

The "standards" you claim to have that treat inflammatory rhetoric from the likes of Kirk and a poster on Stormfront as equally unserious seem to be nothing more than a contrivance reverse-engineered from your preferred conclusion.

 

[johnny karate]

I was asking about hanging Mike Pence in particular (IIRC) but since I don't see what any of this has to do with Kirk's killing I'll let it go.

Your concession is noted.

 

[d4m10n]

this is a dodge.

How do you propose to hold the dead accountable?

 

[AmyStrange]

I didn't mention Democrats at all.

So then, what did you mean by "we" specifically? Every member of this forum? Which I think is mostly of the democratic persuasion---at least those that actually post in this thread.

I have no idea what or who you are. You could be a maga weirdo for all I know.

 

[dirtywick]

BUT, how do you know who's posting and promoting these memes, or are you just specifically picking on and ASSuming it's the dems for some reason?

earlier i asked damion if he felt it was a fair comparison to compare maga to nazis. he didn’t answer, but i don’t think you can go down this line until he does.

if it is fair, he’s asking you to stop doing it regardless which is akin to excusing it imo. if it’s unfair, that’s a seperate discussion. like, i didn’t start calling them nazis until they started doing rounding up people based on race and putting them in camps.