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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Steve said:
Why do you insist in using straw men. Hamas was not mentioned in the post I quoted or in my reply. Perhaps it is your opinion that there is no difference between Hamas and the Palestinian people?
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Darat has claimed that marching with Nazi flags should be criminalized, but marching with Hamas or Hezbollah flags should not. He has failed to explain this indefensible point of view.
 
Steve said:
Then perhaps you should have asked about the flags of those groups. The Palestinian flag predates those groups and their symbols by a considerable margin. The Nazi flag, on the other hand, originated with the Nazi party and was a symbol of their genocidal policies.
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What about the Hamas and Hezbollah flags? Should it be ok to march with them? How is it any different than marching with a Nazi flag? Isn't Hamas as bad as the Nazis?
 
Thermal said:
Yet again, I didn't say 'always'. You really have to knock off the strawmanning.

And btw, I don't think it always amounts to a police matter. The Jake and Elwood school of thought works fine for me, as does the 'pop a Spencer' approach.

eta: and a swastika doesn't mean 'I hate Jews'. It means 'I want to exterminate Jews'. There's a difference.
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Hamas flag means "I want to commit terrorism against Israelis".

So why should their flag be tolerated more than a Nazi flag?
 
arthwollipot said:
Even when what you say and believe is dehumanising and degrading? Even when what you say and believe is that certain kinds of people are subhuman and do not deserve human rights? Even when what you say and believe is that certain kinds of people can and should be killed indiscriminately?

No. There are reasonable limits to free speech.
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Nazis: "Ve vant to kill ze Jews and gays".

Free Speech advocates: "I nobly defend your right to say so".

*nazis kill Jews and gays*

Free Speech advocates: "hey, ho, how'd we get here? Kill the nazis!"
 
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Hercules56 said:
Tomato, potato.
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No, look. I'm sick and tired of hate speech being infantilised as "hurty words". We're not talking about people being mildly offended by someone saying that their hairstyle is ugly. We're talking about peoples' right to exist, and other people arguing that they shouldn't have it. There's a world of difference.
 
Hercules56 said:
What about the Hamas and Hezbollah flags? Should it be ok to march with them? How is it any different than marching with a Nazi flag? Isn't Hamas as bad as the Nazis?
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Given the many war crimes committed by the IDF is it acceptable for people to carry the Israeli flag?

Nazi ideology was inherently racist, regarding certain people as being of lower value than others and a whole people as being worthy of destruction, similar views have been expressed by members of the Israeli government. A claim that Jews are somehow the chosen people and have greater rights than others. Islamist views are non-racist all races are viewed as equal. Claiming Hamas or Hezbollah ideology is equivalent to Nazi ideology is just lazy propaganda.
 
Hercules56 said:
YOU said that it should be a criminal act to march with a Nazi flag. Do you feel the same way about marching with Hamas or Hezbollah flags?
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Which isn't what you said and wasn't what I was replying to.

To your different question: I agree with the government stance in regard to Hamas and Hezbolah.
 
Emily's Cat said:
There is a bit of a difference though. In the US, the police cannot compel you to go to the station and talk to them, without some crime having been committed. You can be detained as a person of interest or a material witness to a crime, but even then you aren't obligated to actually speak to them at all - you have the right to remain silent, and you have the right to a lawyer being present during any interaction you have with the cops.

In the UK, you can be compelled to go to the station and talk to the police for a "non-crime incident". You've committed no crime, but you are still required to go to the station and interact with the police. If you fail to do so, then you can be arrested.
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In the UK you can't be made to speak to the police.
You are entitled to independent legal representation.
 
Hercules56 said:
In the USA, if there is no probable cause that you have committed a crime, police cannot detain you or arrest you or compel you to go anywhere.

That is how a country that believes in freedom actually behaves.
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:rolleyes: Meanwhile,in the Real World....
www.theguardian.com

Police order world champ Terence Crawford out of car at gunpoint after hometown victory parade

Omaha police ordered boxing world champion Terence Crawford out of his vehicle at gunpoint during a traffic stop for reckless driving
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
www.theguardian.com

Revealed: US law enforcement claimed emojis could signal Tren de Aragua affiliation

Claims are ‘an unsophisticated, uneducated approach that demonstrates a lack of knowledge’, says one professor
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
And so on.....
 
Emily's Cat said:
In the UK, you can be compelled to go to the station and talk to the police for a "non-crime incident". You've committed no crime, but you are still required to go to the station and interact with the police. If you fail to do so, then you can be arrested.
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I await your evidence for this
 
smartcooky said:
www.gov.uk

Police powers of arrest: your rights

The police's power of arrest and your rights - procedures, identification, reasonable force
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
​
To arrest you the police need reasonable grounds to suspect you’re involved in a crime for which your arrest is necessary.​
The police have powers to arrest you anywhere and at any time, including on the street, at home or at work.​

Police cannot force you to go to the Station with them, unless they arrest you. However, all they have to do is say they suspect you of posting a hurty tweet that they consider breaks the law, then they can handcuff you, place you under arrest and force you to accompany them.
Even if it later turns out to have been a false arrest, and you end up suing them... it's too late. They have put you through the wringer of the arrest and detention process... remember, that process IS the punishment!
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So not what was claimed then......
:rolleyes:
 
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