Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

Reformed Offlian said:
I'm quite comfortable with my reputation as an honest interlocutor, thank you. You are welcome to point out where I misquoted or misrepresented Kirk.
Click to expand...

Especially since it's d4m10n that's trying to downplay Kirk's meaning. Zigg, EC, him are all trying to argue something so beyond the pale it's ridiculous. Instead of just saying, "Yeah, that's messed up and he shouldn't have done it" (which d4m10n half-ass did) it has to come with a qualifier of "that's not what he meant."
 
d4m10n said:
If someone were to say "Bashar al-Assad should be put in prison or executed" I would agree, though I've no strong preference between those two options.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Saying "x or y should happen" without further qualification bears the interpretation that the speaker is perfectly okay with either one in general. No "honest interlocutor" says that when they mean: "I'm really only okay with one of these, but you'll have to guess which one", nor: "I'm only okay with one of these options under circumstances which I'm not going to point our nor even allude to the existence of." Bringing that to bear on Charlie Kirk's case, he is justly taken to have said he was okay with Biden being executed for whatever it was he is imagined to have done wrong.
 
Last edited:
Reformed Offlian said:
Exactly. Saying "x or y should happen" without further qualification bears the interpretation that the speaker is perfectly okay with either one in general. No "honest interlocutor" says that when they mean: "I'm really only okay with one of these, but you'll have to guess which one", nor: "I'm only okay with one of these options under circumstances which I'm not going to point our or even allude to the existence of." Bringing that to bear on Charlie Kirk's case, he is justly taken to have said he was okay with Biden being executed for whatever it was he is imagined to have done wrong.
Click to expand...
If he wasn't fine with Biden being executed, he wouldn't have said it. Let's not forget that Kirk was basing all this on the bat ◊◊◊◊ nonsense that raced around in his head.
 
Ziggurat said:
Yes. Yes they are. Because words aren't violence, violence is violence. It wasn't a Republican that actually killed a prominent Democrat activist. It wasn't multiple Republicans who recently attempted to assassinate a Democrat president. It wasn't Republicans becoming fan boys for the murderer of a health care CEO. You can point to all the out-of-context rhetoric you want, but the actual political violence in the US now is coming from the left, not the right.
Click to expand...

It also wasn't a Democrat who killed a prominent Republican activist and it also wasn't multiple Democrats who recently attempted to assassinate a Republican president. Weird that you mention two examples that don't support your thesis.

The best you seem to have is internet randos celebrating a CEO's murder, which I have to admit is quite the slam dunk because no Republicans anywhere ever celebrate murder or violence.
 
Last edited:
Resume said:
Threatening someone with either based on nothing but pure hatred is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ evil.
Click to expand...
I don't doubt that hatred is in the loop here, but you have to make some room for the role of false beliefs as well.

If you were to believe someone committed treason, it generally follows from that belief that you would like to see them tried and sentenced for it.

This is something I've often seen people say about Trump in various online forums.
 
Last edited:
Reformed Offlian said:
Saying "x or y should happen" without further qualification bears the interpretation that the speaker is perfectly okay with either one in general.
Click to expand...
Okay, but how does one get from perfectly okay with either outcome to the idea that Kirk was hoping to be "jury, judge and Executioner" though? Seems like an unwarranted leap to impute that level of murderous intent.

Reformed Offlian said:
if we're going to nitpick, he said dead and/or in prison.
Click to expand...
I'm always down to nitpick.

Tell me if you think this is a fair characterization of what Kirk said: Biden should either be put in prison or put in prison and then subsequently given the death penalty for his crimes against America.
 
Last edited:
d4m10n said:
I don't doubt that hatred is in the loop here, but you have to make some room for the role of false beliefs as well.
Click to expand...
He claimed to be a critical thinker and I never saw much evidence of that.
d4m10n said:
If you were to believe someone committed treason, it generally follows from that belief that you would like to see them tried and sentenced for it.
Click to expand...
I don't think he was genuine about this. At all. I think it was ◊◊◊◊ stirring for his audience, which makes it sort of worse.
d4m10n said:
This is something I've often seen people say about Trump in various online forums.
Click to expand...
If they have the same evidence as Kirk did for his assertion, they're full of ◊◊◊◊ too.

ETA: Randos on forums are not the same; I think maybe someone like Olbermann making the same claims about Trump would be equivalent, and just as much bull ◊◊◊◊.
 
Last edited:
d4m10n said:
Okay, but how does one get from perfectly okay with either outcome to the idea that Kirk was hoping to be "jury, judge and Executioner" though? Seems like an unwarranted leap to impute that level of murderous intent.
Click to expand...

No idea, and not my problem. The 'judge, jury, and executioner' bit wasn't mine.

d4m10n said:
I'm always down to nitpick.

Tell me if you think this is a fair characterization of what Kirk said: Biden should either be put in prison or put in prison and then subsequently given the death penalty for his crimes against America.
Click to expand...

Or, he should just be executed, period. A fair characterization is that Kirk indicated he was okay with any outcome that resulted in Biden never seeing the light of day again, even if that involved his execution.
 
Last edited:
Reformed Offlian said:
No idea, and not my problem. The 'judge, jury, and executioner' bit wasn't mine.



Or, he should just be executed, period. A fair characterization is that Kirk indicated he was okay with any outcome that resulted in Biden never seeing the light of day again, even if that involved his execution.
Click to expand...

An even fairer characterization is that Kirk unambiguously advocated for Biden's execution.
 
plague311 said:
Especially since it's d4m10n that's trying to downplay Kirk's meaning. Zigg, EC, him are all trying to argue something so beyond the pale it's ridiculous. Instead of just saying, "Yeah, that's messed up and he shouldn't have done it" (which d4m10n half-ass did) it has to come with a qualifier of "that's not what he meant."
Click to expand...
No, but I don't expect that you'll actually use your brain to consider this point at all.

Clearly Kirk did NOT call for Biden to be murdered - which is where this ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ started. It is a falsehood intended to stir up antagonism and hatred to frame it as such. And in context it's quite clear that what Kirk implied was that Biden should be charged for whatever crimes Kirk imagined that Biden committed, and then be found guilty and given either life in prison or the death sentence. Nothing at all in that quote suggests that Kirk expects to be judge, jury, and executioner - as has been put forth here.

A reasonable and sensible reading does not support the hyperbolic narrative being pushed by people in this thread.

Furthermore, me speaking out and saying that you guys are exaggerating Kirk's quotes in order to further exacerbate political division, and to further inflame anger and the likelihood of violence does NOT IN ANY RATIONAL WAY suggest that I agree with any of Kirk's views!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom