JesseCuster
Master Poster
- Joined
- May 4, 2016
- Messages
- 2,159
I got ChatGTP to explain all this bow visor malarkey in a diagram. I think that speaks for itself.
The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII
- Thread starter Jack by the hedge
- Start date
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- ms estonia
I got ChatGTP to explain all this bow visor malarkey in a diagram. I think that speaks for itself.
catsmate
No longer the 1
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 34,767
Wallpaper words
Reformed Offlian
Master Poster
Question for German speakers: if two Germans exchange letters filled with wallpaper words, does that make their correspondence a Tapetenwechsel?
I have two or three at least around the house. Most were my dad's, but i think i still have one that was mine, though I'm not absolutely sure we ever properly used them at school, calculators were just coming in when I became a teenager. (My dad had one of the first Sinclair Scientific calculators, so I learnt RPN very early, and have trouble using calculators with an '=' button.)
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Instead of your knee-jerk outbursts, perhaps you can explain in which way I am wrong? For your information, the max wind speed 27.9.1994 was 24/25 m/s and the maximum speed of the vessel was 18 knots.
This is correct. No amount of abuse hurling can conceal that I am right.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Really? Perhaps you can explain to us all how you think it works.
Do pay attention. You were wrong when you said '15-18 knots' appeared on the diagram, when the highest speed shown was 14 knots.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Wrong again. Instead of going off half cock, perhaps check your facts.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
People knew perfectly speed is measured in knots. The claim they couldn't 'see 18 knots' on the diagram was just an excuse to feign outrage.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Please explain. Also, please explain what you meant by 'Lindy Chamberlain', a few pages back. What were you accusing me of there?
W.D.Clinger
Philosopher
Back around 1975, I also had an HP-29c. The largest program I wrote for it just barely fit within its memory, and ran for over a week before it confirmed the result I expected.
No amount of whining can reveal you were right.
No one could see '18 knots' on the diagram, because it wasn't there. That was just a fact.
Saying it "was just an excuse to feign outrage" is just your excuse to feign outrage.
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JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
The claim that people couldn’t see 18 knots on the diagram comes from the observation that 18 knots appears nowhere on the diagram. 18 m/s appears as the wind speed.
Stop the bickering. And please note Rule 4 covers the reposting of content generated by AI.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: Darat
Use of AI in answers is usually a breech of Rule 4 or possibly rule 6 (disruptive formatting/disruptive posting) @Vixen please refrain from using it so much.
Also I have moved 59 posts to AAH, which is tedious. Most of these were rule 12 violations - remember the other posters are not the topic of this thread although that does not protect one from posts challenging any claims of expertise
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: jimbob
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Here is the explanation again. Having had it explained, I am not sure why people are still pretending they do not understand.
Post no. 1:
What? I travelled from Stockholm to Turku, night boat, in the middle of January in recent years. It is not a problem for these boats.
The wind on 27.9.1994 was 24/25 m/s at its worse but otherwise a sou'westerly 18 m/s. 15 - 18 knots.
---
Later post:
No, we were discussing how bad the storm was. I mentioned I had travelled from Stockholm to Turku in the middle of January overnight with no problem, so there is nothing special about the end of September (and the water is deepest just NW of Gottland, and the stretch between Åland Islands and Stockholm can go up to >300). Compare and contrast to the relatively shallow waters near where Estonia sank (35m - 125m) plus, the Gulf of Finland midstream is quite deep. So having mentioned the January ferry journey, I stated the wind speed on 27.9.1994 was sou'westerly at 24/25 [corr] m/s. 18 knots. Later, another poster claimed not to understand so I produced a diagram (from the JAIC Report) illustrating wind direction and speed at m/s and the speed of the vessel where the bow visor fell off, which showed 'S = 14'. It is unfortunate the JAIC diagram didn't show where Estonia reached its maximum speed as witnessed by AMBER and the nearby Silja Europa. So we then had dozens of posts from people claiming they couldn't see the word 'S = 18', on the JAIC diagram, so therefore, I was a some kind of an airhead/bimbo and also a liar for denying I had supposedly - according to the detractors - confused 18 knots for 18 m/s. Given I went to some lengths to explain it several times, plus I am a fully qualified chartered accountant who works with numbers every working day, uses kilometres here, in this country, as default, and has a mathematical sciences degree, there really is zero chance I could mistake 18 m/s windspeed for 18 knots boat speed. Having stated wind speed 18 m/s, there is zero chance I would bother to calculate the mph equivalent, as the person I was responding to already knows what 18 m/s windspeed means. However, person no. 2, claimed they just couldn't understand the difference between 24/25 [corr] m/s windspeed and 18 knots, and a whole load of people claiming I really thought 24/25 [corr] m/s = 18 knots. So yes, I do think it was hazing and not a genuine belief, given the background and my explanations.
Person no 2, I believe knows full well 18 knots refers to vessel speed, given he claims to be a coastguard.
Please stop falsely claiming that I converted 24/25m/s to 18 knots for the benefit of Andy Ross, because the idea is obviously ridiculous. Thank you.
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Reformed Offlian
Master Poster
There is nothing to explain. This is a straightforward issue of fact to be decided by observation: either a reference to 18 knots appears on the diagram or it does not. It does not. There is no point in trying to explain something that is not so. Why, after all this time are you still typing the nonsensical character string "18 m/s. 18 knots" into your posts?
ETA: I notice you have corrected this now. Thanks. Now all you have to do is get rid of the rest of the "18 knots" nonsense.
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junkshop
Otto's Favourite
Vixen is lying again. There is no other way to describe this blatant posting of falsehoods. She's not 'mistaken', it's not a 'typo', it's not a 'difference of opinion'.
It doesn't 'depend on how you look at it', it's not a 'matter of interpretation'. It's a lie. it is a blatant, obvious, proven ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ lie.
To say so is not misogyny, is not racism, is not bullying, is not jealousy of a self-declared genius. No, it is a statement of fact.
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
For the umpty-ninth time, the diagram was some time after and was directly from JAIC. For the avoidance of doubt:
Between 2215 and 2245 hrs (approximate) the ESTONIA was plotted by a meeting vessel, the AMBER and according to Amber's plot, the speed was then about 18.5 knots. The speed of the SILJA EUROPA was at this point 18.8 knots and further decreased to 17.6 knots between Russarö lighthouse and the Apollo buoy. After passing Osmussaar lighthouse the ESTONIA lost her land shelter and the sea conditions deteriorated. Based on experience it is believed that the sea conditions were slightly worse in the area where the SILJA EUROPA was sailing. At about 2255 hrs the Apollo buoy was abeam and the ESTONIA's speed is estimated to have been close to 17 knots. The ESTONIA passed the Glotov buoy at about 2355 hrs and, by comparing with the SILJA EUROPA, it can be assumed that her speed was now about 15 knots. This estimate is also confirmed by the trainee second officer, who has stated that the speed was between 14 and 15 knots, as well as by the third engineer who has stated that the speed was 15 knots when he started his watch in the engine control room at midnight. During the first thirty minutes after midnight the average speed of the SILJA EUROPA dropped by about one knot. When the ESTONIA reached the waypoint at 59° 20 N, 22° 00 E between 0025 and 0030 hrs, her true course was changed from 262 to 287 and the stabilisers were extended. Her average speed was between 14 and 15 knots."
Bahnhof Fact Group
To recap max wind was 24/25 ms max speed was 18 knots.
Please stop falsely claiming I converted m/s into knots because that is patently untrue.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
For the umpty-ninth time, the diagram was some time after and was direcxtly from JAIC.
It's now corrected.
junkshop
Otto's Favourite
Greasy post is greasy.
ETA: To be clear: By greasy I mean dishonest, evasive, and slippery. I am not using the word greasy as a xenophobic slur.
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