What did Democrats do wrong?

[theprestige]

At this point, is there a reason I shouldn't believe that?

Because it's not true.

That racists do not like being called out is not a reason not to call them out.

You're begging the question. Voters have noticed.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Because it's not true.

You're begging the question. Voters have noticed.

Have they?

Did they also notice the candidate they voted for spreading irresponsible rumors about Haitian immigrants eating cats?

Did they notice the candidate they voted for turning DEI into some sort of bugbear and moving to eliminate commemorations of black achievement? Did they notice Republicans calling Harris a "DEI hire"?

Did they notice the candidate they voted for pushing to revert the names of U.S. military bases to being named after Confederate generals (but not really winkwink)?

Did they notice the Republican legislature in North Carolina commissioning a study to find out which methods of voting were favored by African Americans, and then moving to limit or eliminate precisely those methods?

Had they previously noticed when Trump said that there were "fine people" at the Unite the Right rally?

Had they previously noticed when Trump generalized Latino immigrants into drug dealers?

Yes, you're right. I'll bet they have noticed all these things. And then they voted for Trump. More than once in some cases.

 

[theprestige]

Have they?

Did they also notice the candidate they voted for spreading irresponsible rumors about Haitian immigrants eating cats?

Did they notice the candidate they voted for turning DEI into some sort of bugbear and moving to eliminate commemorations of black achievement? Did they notice Republicans calling Harris a "DEI hire"?

Did they notice the candidate they voted for pushing to revert the names of U.S. military bases to being named after Confederate generals (but not really winkwink)?

Did they notice the Republican legislature in North Carolina commissioning a study to find out which methods of voting were favored by African Americans, and then moving to limit or eliminate precisely those methods?

Had they previously noticed when Trump said that there were "fine people" at the Unite the Right rally?

Had they previously noticed when Trump said that Latino immigrants were drug dealers?

I'll bet they have noticed all these things. And then they voted for Trump. More than once in some cases.

Yeah, because they also noticed how much you hate them, just for voting differently.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Yeah, because they also noticed how much you hate them, just for voting differently.

I don't think it's my hate that motivated them. I'm pretty sure my hate never motivated anybody's actions other than my own. And I suspect the only hate that ever motivated Trump voters' actions was their own. Because that's how agency works.

 

[dirtywick]

must be freeing to adopt an ideology where you do not have to take responsibility for your own decisions

 

[Reformed Offlian]

must be freeing to adopt an ideology where you do not have to take responsibility for your own decisions

Well, of course not, because apparently the OP of this thread requires that Trump voters' decisions can only ever be attributed to "What Democrats did wrong". Any other framing of those voters' choices is off topic or cheating somehow.

 

[Random]

"going all-out, trying to make it clear that they hated any American who disagreed with them"

QED

You ever think maybe vast swaths of the American public are sick and tired of you playing the race card, any time you encounter dissent? Probably you don't, because you actually believe vast swaths of the American public are irrevocably racist.

Armed agents of the state are literally grabbing people off the street based solely on the color of their skin, and vast swaths of the American public are fine with that.

 

[Donal]

Yeah, because they also noticed how much you hate them, just for voting differently.

That is some solid wife beater logic there. "Look what you made me do!"

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Armed agents of the state are literally grabbing people off the street based solely on the color of their skin, and vast swaths of the American public are fine with that.

Framing it as a race based issue when it's not is outrageously disingenuous. Are you okay with supporting human traffickers indenturing immigrants into forced servitude? Are you okay with Sanctuary Cities denying immigration retainers and performing catch/release/cashless bail on individuals that were picked up for crimes like murder, assault, sexual abuse? Are you fine with a percentage of ille- (sorry, "undocumented") immigrants committing serious crimes and being allowed release back into the public? When you make everything about race without exception, that's part of the problem, because you've over-simplified the issue to sheer absurdity and show a willingness to ignore legitimate problems.

And if you want to get down to calling non-violent and otherwise law-abiding "undocumented immigrants" victims. It's fairly obvious they should have gone through the visa process. But when you break laws, you need to be held accountable. That's how the world spins. When you don't enforce the law and you make it only about the race bait, you apparently don't take seriously the same immigrants being used effectively as slaves to smugglers that brought them in, much less any crime that follows from not caring about how porous the border is.

Point being you focus on calling them victims based off an absurd hyperbole, but don't even acknowledge how allowing the immigration issue to explode as much as it has, has itself made many of them victims, be they to the cartels, smugglers, whatever... That's the irony.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Framing it as a race based issue when it's not is outrageously disingenuous. Are you okay with supporting human traffickers indenturing immigrants into forced servitude? Are you okay with Sanctuary Cities denying immigration retainers and performing catch/release/cashless bail on individuals that were picked up for crimes like murder, assault, sexual abuse? Are you fine with a percentage of ille- (sorry, "undocumented") immigrants committing serious crimes and being allowed release back into the public?

Are these my only alternatives to: "Have unaccountable wannabe Rorschachs harrass and grab anyone who looks or talks funny?"

When you make everything about race without exception, that's part of the problem, because you've over-simplified the issue to sheer absurdity and show a willingness to ignore legitimate problems.

We didn't make it about race; MAGA did. We're just calling it out.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Are these my only alternatives to: "Have unaccountable wannabe Rorschachs harrass and grab anyone who looks or talks funny?"

We didn't make it about race; MAGA did. We're just calling it out.

Again you're proving my point that none of the other baggage that comes with defending illegal immigration were a consideration in your take on this. There's one of your answers as to why the election swung the way it did, whether you'll acknowledge it or not.

PS the race bait trend has existed since before Maga existed. Obama and Hillary's campaign being recent (but not exclusive) examples. I'm not sure what you expect to achieve pretending this trend started much later. Trump wasn't running in 2008 or 2012.

Either way, since you are tripling down on this being nothing but race related, we're done here. Have fun.

 

[Susheel]

PS the race bait trend has existed since before Maga existed. Obama and Hillary's campaign being recent (but not exclusive) examples. I'm not sure what you expect to achieve pretending this trend started much later. Trump wasn't running in 2008 or 2012.

Either way, since you are tripling down on this being nothing but race related, we're done here. Have fun.

So rewactions to American racist bigotry is race baiting....gotcha.
Racism and racist bigotry existed before MAGA, but MAGA sort of validated and made it actually acceptable to be racist.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

So rewactions to American racist bigotry is race baiting....gotcha.

I have no problem calling racism and bigotry for what it is. However, it's being used in this context as an excuse to avoid debate. And people are complaining about having that called out. If you want to demean and diminish it for people that actually suffered from it by crying wolf on every single disagreeing argument, that's your prerogative. But I'm not taking the bait or stooping to that standard.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Right-wingers have demonstrated that they can get outraged at the smallest things most people wouldn't even notice until some hatemonger points it out for profit and fame.

The true magic here is the level of abdication of any personal emotional state of the average Republican voter to what they are being told they should feel about the color of a suit.
Not only do they not think independently, they don't feel emotions independently.

 

[Susheel]

I have no problem calling racism and bigotry for what it is. However, it's being used in this context as an excuse to avoid debate. And people are complaining about having that called out. If you want to demean and diminish it for people that actually suffered from it by crying wolf on every single disagreeing argument, that's your prerogative. But I'm not taking the bait.

No it isn't. In fact, it is being called out for what it is and those indulging in it are whinging that it is being called out. You seem to be under the illusion that these folks have any rational arguments for their stance other than "these folks are not like me and so I hate them". What kind of debate can you have with someone who insists that black or brown people are inherently less capable than white folk, or someone who proudly claims Hitler had the right idea? I think the Hassan-Jubilee debate showed that most rightwing cultists are really beyond any rational engagement.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

No it isn't.

I have to stop you here. I've made specific references to Sanctuary City policies creating a soft on crime environment, and noted that a sizeable proportion of illegal immigration is taking place through trafficking that winds up with those immigrants facing indentured debt while we've been on this side tracking "argument". More aligned with this thread, I also made references to how the Party leadership and the media colluded to keep Biden's decline out of public discussion and denied their base voters the ability to choose an alternative pool of candidates. Numerous other issues I can't be bothered to recall and search through this thread on as well.

The number of replies addressing them so far? Zero. So... again have fun. I'll wait for someone who's interested.

 

[Susheel]

I have to stop you here. I've made specific references to Sanctuary City policies creating a soft on crime environment, and noted that a sizeable proportion of illegal immigration is taking place through trafficking that winds up with those immigrants facing indentured debt while we've been on this side tracking "argument". More aligned with this thread, I also made references to how the Party leadership and the media colluded to keep Biden's decline out of public discussion and denied their base voters the ability to choose an alternative pool of candidates. Numerous other issues I can't be bothered to recall and search through this thread on as well.

The number of replies addressing them so far? Zero. So... again have fun. I'll wait for someone who's interested.

No it didn't. All your talking points seem to be drawn straight out of a MAGA pamphlet and don't really reflect the reality.

 

[Helen]

Yeah, because they also noticed how much you hate them, just for voting differently.

They voted for Trump out of spite? Look, face, i cut off our nose, that kind of thing? Very reasonsble.

 

[Susheel]

They voted for Trump out of spite? Look, face, i cut off our nose, that kind of thing? Very reasonsble.

"Look what you made me do..." seems to be a common justification with those folk...

 

[Grizzly Bear]

They voted for Trump out of spite? Look, face, i cut off our nose, that kind of thing? Very reasonsble.

Well. You can see from the last response I got that issues people voted on are regarded as flat out denials of reality. And the same people say the democratic party made no mistakes. That seems to be the general consensus I'm reading as a response to the OP.

But at least it's clear now.