Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

jt512 said:
To make the implied part explicit, if you truly believed that some outspoken opinion leader was the next Hitler, wouldn't you be doing a great service to the world to assassinate him? Claus von Stauffenberg, who led the failed 1944 attempt to assassinate Hitler, is considered a hero in Germany. Germans commemorates the assassination attempt annually with an official memorial service for Stauffenberg.
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This is... mostly true. There is a German Resistance Memorial Centre and its purpose is to commemorate those members of the German army who attempted to assassinate Hitler, but it is also intended to represent the German resistance movement in general. On the 20th of July the memorial centre performs a solemn military funeral in the place where those officers who were executed.

So while it is true that Colonel Stauffenberg is among those commemorated, the memorial serves to honour all the members of the German resistance.

It's also worth noting that...

The museum also makes a particular point of both demonstrating and criticizing how Hitler manipulated, exploited, and weaponized anti-Semitism, Eugenics, ultra-nationalism, and scientific racism to seize absolute power and then led the German people to the ruin and starvation of the Second World War and its aftermath as their dictator.
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en.wikipedia.org

German Resistance Memorial Center - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
smartcooky said:
No. There's isn't any evidence at all, not even unsubstatiated, that he is a leftist.

The ONLY things we know about him are that his family are conservative, they are Fat Orange Turd supporters, they are gun rights supporters, he excelled at school, that one of his roommates might be trans.
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I'd say that the anti-fascist messages he'd etched on his rifle cartridges were evidence that he is a leftist. In fact, I'd say his very choice of target is evidence he's a leftist, in the same way that lynching a black guy is evidence that you're a racist.
 
What is a fact is that the shooter has spent almost all of his life in a very conservative, right wing environment which was very pro Trump.
There was not much time and opportunity to soak up a lot of other ideology through physical contact with "Leftists": we have zero information that he participated in any left leaning groups or events.
Most likely, he acquired is view on life through online content and contacts, primarily gamer culture, which again are overwhelmingly right wing.

If knowing someone who is trans is enough to make someone from a very conservative background a militant Left winger, Trump would never have been elected.
 
Walter said:
Sorry. Posted too soon.

Dad died in 1985. The fact that he was a brilliant mathematician and electrical engineer would be irrelevant today. His service in the Army Signal Corps during World War 2, starting in 1943 at the age of 19 after being awarded his B.S. degree, working with radar, radio communications and Allied encryption would be ignored. Only his party affiliation would matter. That damn Nazi.

Nice work.
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The question of course is, would someone who saw the effects of fascism vote for the current GOP which is using fascist methods to grab power.
If you doubt that I'd really advise you to actually read some history on how Mussolini and Hitler got to power. And then replace words like 'leftist/democrat/trans' with 'jew' and re-read GOP talking points.
 
jt512 said:
I'd say that the anti-fascist internet meme/gamer culture messages he'd etched on his rifle cartridges were evidence that he is a leftist nerd and probably a nutcase.
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FTFY
jt512 said:
In fact, I'd say his very choice of target is evidence he's a leftist, in the same way that lynching a black guy is evidence that you're a racist.
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No, you can't reliably glean any information about political affiliation from the target.

The guy who tried to assassinate The Fat Orange Turd was a registered Republican
Lee Harvey Oswald was a far leftist who assassinated a Democratic President
John Hinckley was a Republican (as were his parents) and at one time was a member the Chicago Chapter of the Nazi Party, yeah an Illinois Nazi (Jake Blues' favorite)

Someone like Charlie Kirk could easily have been assassinated by someone on the far right who didn't consider him sufficiently far right.
 
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smartcooky said:
Someone like Charlie Kirk could easily have been assassinated by someone on the far right who didn't consider him sufficiently far right.
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Might want to think about the priors on such a hypothesis.

And you conveniently ignored the antifa etchings on the cartridges.
 
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Orphia Nay said:
This explains the memes/messages on the bullets (and more) from someone who understands that subculture. Do watch.

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Interesting. If this analysis is true, and if I'm understanding, the engravings point to a culture that is aiming to disrupt, and they were mad at Kirk for not being far-right enough, and/or for not being christian nationalist enough?

eta: And being anti-fascist shouldn't be a left or right thing. It's a decent people thing.
 
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What I would like to see explored are some early reports of the shooter's family discussing Kirk and concluding that he was "full of hate" and they did not like him.
As Kirk was a massive Trump supporter and so was the Family, this needs further explanation IMO and might be useful to pinpoint what made Kirk seem unpalatable even for some Trump supporters.
 
JimOfAllTrades said:
Interesting. If this analysis is true, and if I'm understanding, the engravings point to a culture that is aiming to disrupt, and they were mad at Kirk for not being far-right enough, and/or for not being christian nationalist enough?

eta: And being anti-fascist shouldn't be a left or right thing. It's a decent people thing.
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Yes, the Groypers were trolling Kirk, and trolling leftists. The shooter would be laughing his head off at the people saying he's a leftist.
 
jt512 said:
Might want to think about the priors on such a hypothesis.
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This suggests that you don't understand how Bayesian reasoning works.
jt512 said:
And you conveniently ignored the antifa etchings on the cartridges.
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Those anti-fascist memes have gone mainstream and been coopted by Nazis online.
And the practice of etching messages on bullets itself is a practically exclusive right wing hate crime practice.

In short: we do not know enough to make a definite case for anything, and we probably won't until we hear from the shooter himself (who should keep his mouth shut until the trial if he knows what's good for him, personally).
 
What makes a left Wing ideology less likely, IMO, is the lack of any reference to the Gaza conflict - Kirk was very explicitly pro Israel no matter what.
It is unlikely that he spent a lot of time with Leftists, online or in RL, without the subject coming up.
 
jt512 said:
Might want to think about the priors on such a hypothesis.
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Please explain what you mean by that

jt512 said:
And you conveniently ignored the antifa etchings on the cartridges.
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I didn't ignore them, I fixed your incorrect post for you.

These engravings are not antifa. They are from internet meme/gamer culture

www.isdglobal.org

Memes & the Extreme Right-Wing

Overviews of issues, trends, narratives, platforms and actors.
www.isdglobal.org

Internet Memes & the ‘Alt-Right’​
​
The emergence and growth of the “alt right” (“alternative right”) movement in the early 2010s was characterized by an extensive use of social media and online memes. A particularly important moment in the formation of the alt-right was during the 2016 US presidential campaign, where the memes that they produced and disseminated online flooded the internet with pro-Trump content to such an extent that it was dubbed a ‘meme war’, and is considered to have been instrumental in shifting the public narrative to one that was sympathetic of Trump.​
​
The alt-right’s use of memes is thought to have “established a cultural policy that combined ideas of white supremacy with digital meme, game and hacker cultures in such a way that it provided fascist ideology with a new look or image…for the digital age”. Memes have since become a central online communication, propagandizing and recruitment tool for the extreme right.​
 
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