Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

Andy_Ross said:
NOEM: The last thing Charlie had texted me was about those mayors and governors, that he wanted them to be held accountable for how dangerous they were making the situation for the people that have to live in those cities.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1967229652071858559
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I wonder if she's making that up? It doesn't fit with the rest of the things I've been hearing about Kirk, not that any news reports so far fit with anything.
 
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I am pretty sure that I have known the problem for a number of years. All one has to do is look at the progression of terms used for Republicans over the last 65 years. In 1960, my father was a Republican. Period.

Then something very mysterious happened. In a very nice gradual way, there was this little progression to conservative Republican, right wing conservative, far right wing conservative, ultra right wing conservative, right wing conservative Christian fundamentalist, gun nut, bigot, racist, misogynist, homophobe, Islamophobe, xenophobe, fascist, Nazi.

And that, to put it mildly, was the end. There was no place to go. There was no next descriptive term. That was it. Finished. All that was left was louder and more often. Done.

What do you think comes next?

It does not take logical, reasoned thinking to come up with an answer. Anyone, regardless of educational background, upbringing, socioeconomic status, race or religion can come up with the answer.
 
"Utah governor says suspect... is not cooperating with authorities."

He's under arrest for a murder. What cooperation do they need?

Here's a wild guess... they want him to say he's a liberal Democrat trans ally radicalized by progressive LGBTQ atheist college professors, but he wants to say he killed Kirk because Kirk was a Jew-lover. "Not cooperative, son!"
 
Sorry. Posted too soon.

Dad died in 1985. The fact that he was a brilliant mathematician and electrical engineer would be irrelevant today. His service in the Army Signal Corps during World War 2, starting in 1943 at the age of 19 after being awarded his B.S. degree, working with radar, radio communications and Allied encryption would be ignored. Only his party affiliation would matter. That damn Nazi.

Nice work.
 
Myriad said:
He's under arrest for a murder. What cooperation do they need?
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Indeed. There is never any reason for a defendant to help the police and prosecutor build their case.

Myriad said:
Here's a wild guess... they want him to say he's a liberal Democrat trans ally radicalized by progressive LGBTQ atheist college professors…
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Or something like that. The reporting is open in saying they’re trying to find motive. That factors only slightly into how he’s charged. Did he intend to kill Kirk? That’s the only question that’s legally pertinent. Why he may have intended to do it is irrelevant legally, but is all-important politically.

The leverage is that the prosecutor hasn’t squarely landed yet on whether to seek the death penalty. If we want to be conspiratorial, it’s easy to imagine that they’ll promise not to seek the death penalty if he says “the trans” made him do it.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Who says they need cooperation ?
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The governor of Utah.

Okay, he didn't use the word "need," but if he's complaining in public that Robinson "is not cooperating," it clearly means he at least wants him to cooperate with something. But with what? Does he want his testimony against the gun store clerk who sold him the rounds? Does he want him to name the other members of his murder cult? Is he annoyed because he's rattling a tin cup across the bars of his cell and he wants him to stop? Does he want to stage an escape so he can track him to the secret rebel base?

Of course not. He wants him to cooperate with a narrative of his choosing. And he probably will, sooner or later. I hope his lawyer can write a memoir someday, at least.
 
dann said:
I think you need to google the difference between what's satire and what's reality in a post that, yes, was obviously satire, which is why we focussed on the one thing that was amiss in this particular piece of satire.
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It's called a Poe, and if you don't recognize it then you should hand in your skeptic's badge.

Not the best Poe though because I gave you plenty of clues. For a better example read Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal.
 
JayUtah said:
Indeed. There is never any reason for a defendant to help the police and prosecutor build their case.


Or something like that. The reporting is open in saying they’re trying to find motive. That factors only slightly into how he’s charged. Did he intend to kill Kirk? That’s the only question that’s legally pertinent. Why he may have intended to do it is irrelevant legally, but is all-important politically.

The leverage is that the prosecutor hasn’t squarely landed yet on whether to seek the death penalty. If we want to be conspiratorial, it’s easy to imagine that they’ll promise not to seek the death penalty if he says “the trans” made him do it.
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His smartest move IMHO, one that no lawyer would ever even think of recommending, would be to plead guilty at arraignment. The longer this draws out the more likely he will end up with the death penalty. If he adamantly insisted on the earliest sentencing possible (not sure what that would be under Utah law) the conservative prosecution would be forced into a difficult situation. They are totally fine with executing criminals found guilty, but killing a man who basically asks for his own execution would be assisted suicide, and the right is less comfortable with that idea. I'm only partly joking ;)
 
Brainster said:
I think it's much more likely to be true than not, but it's certainly falsifiable. We have heard that the shooter disapproved of Kirk's politics, we have heard that he was apparently the lover of a trans-identifying male. The biggest argument against is that he comes from a conservative family, as if it is impossible for the children of conservatives to grow up leftist.
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What's 'much more likely' is that he fits the profile of other conservative young men who committed similar acts. I realize that may be a bitter pill to swallow. The hardest person to be honest with is yourself.
 
Brainster said:
It's fair to say that the Republicans and the right (groups I no longer consider myself part) jumped to a conclusion based on limited evidence. It is becoming blindingly obvious that the Democrats and the left (groups I am uncomfortable with as well) jumped to the opposite conclusion based on the assumption that the Republicans and the right are always wrong, and are clinging desperately to it in the face of later evidence to the contrary.
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What evidence exactly?
 
P.J. Denyer said:
I thought it was his landlord. But it's it's a distinction that makes no significant difference.
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Exactly. The important thing is get the word 'Trans' out there. Gotta do something to counter the awful realization that the shooter was yet another white conservative male - not the bloodthirsty leftist you were hoping for. You'd think they would be wary of falling into that trap by now...
 
Brainster said:
I think it's much more likely to be true than not, but it's certainly falsifiable. We have heard that the shooter disapproved of Kirk's politics, we have heard that he was apparently the lover of a trans-identifying male. The biggest argument against is that he comes from a conservative family, as if it is impossible for the children of conservatives to grow up leftist.
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You have zero substantiated evidence that he has any leftist views.

That he comes from a Republican Christian gun-loving culture is a confirmed fact.

Seems that the latter is why you’re tying yourself in knots to pretend the opposite of the former.
 
stanfr said:
They are totally fine with executing criminals found guilty, but killing a man who basically asks for his own execution would be assisted suicide, and the right is less comfortable with that idea. I'm only partly joking ;)
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I don’t have the wherewithal at the moment to go into Utah’s complicated relationship with the death penalty. But the scenario you present just isn’t part of Utah thinking. A person who pleads guilty is just as legally guilty as a person convicted in court. And if the death penalty was on the table, then Utah will happily poison or shoot him.
 
Walter said:
I am pretty sure that I have known the problem for a number of years. All one has to do is look at the progression of terms used for Republicans over the last 65 years. In 1960, my father was a Republican. Period.

Then something very mysterious happened. In a very nice gradual way, there was this little progression to conservative Republican, right wing conservative, far right wing conservative, ultra right wing conservative, right wing conservative Christian fundamentalist, gun nut, bigot, racist, misogynist, homophobe, Islamophobe, xenophobe, fascist, Nazi.

And that, to put it mildly, was the end. There was no place to go. There was no next descriptive term. That was it. Finished. All that was left was louder and more often. Done.

What do you think comes next?

It does not take logical, reasoned thinking to come up with an answer. Anyone, regardless of educational background, upbringing, socioeconomic status, race or religion can come up with the answer.
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To make the implied part explicit, if you truly believed that some outspoken opinion leader was the next Hitler, wouldn't you be doing a great service to the world to assassinate him? Claus von Stauffenberg, who led the failed 1944 attempt to assassinate Hitler, is considered a hero in Germany. Germans commemorates the assassination attempt annually with an official memorial service for Stauffenberg.
 
johnny karate said:
You have zero substantiated evidence that he has any leftist views...
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No. There's isn't any evidence at all, not even unsubstatiated, that he is a leftist.

The ONLY things we know about him are that his family are conservative, they are Fat Orange Turd supporters, they are gun rights supporters, he excelled at school, that one of his roommates might be trans.

None of that is enough to reach any firm conclusions but its most likely that he is a conservative.
 
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