Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

I don't care. You are trying to conflate "I am" with "I prefer to be treated in a particular way for my comfort". They are not equivalent and I'm not biting.
And you're conflating a figurative usage of the word 'woman' with the literal usage. "I'm a transwoman" means that the person thinks they're figuratively a "woman", even though they're literally a male human being.

Or do you think that transwomen are literally identical to female human beings and nobody can tell them apart?
 


Putting this thread on moderated status *AGAIN*

Can you all try identifying as civil adults, please?

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob
 
You are trying to conflate "I am" with "I prefer to be treated in a particular way for my comfort". They are not equivalent
Of course they aren't equivalent. The former is logically incoherent ("I am a woman very deep down," says the obvious man) while the latter actually makes sense without invoking unverifiable ideas like the soul.
"I want to be treated like I am loved for my comfort" is vastly and qualitatively different than "I am loved"
Which one of those statements is most analogous to asking for the keys to the ladies floor, as an intact male?
I'll ask again: do you have any reason to believe the WI Spa would ask the question in such an odd way?
I'm fairly confident that the patron was doing the asking, rather than the employees.
 
Now the Daily Mail is exposing Watson.


Still refers to him as she/her though, and when quoting other people who use correct-sex pronouns qualifies these by putting "sic" in brackets after them.

ETA: it's been pointed out that it was Watson's threat to effect a citizen's arrest of both the claimant's advocate and the judge in the Sandie Peggie ET (for the crime of referring to Theo Upton as he/him or in the case of the judge not using pronouns at all) that caused the tribunal to have to be moved from Edinburgh to Dundee. This was later misrepresented by the Health Board (in the infamous press release) into the implication that the move had been necessitated by threats of violence from Mrs Peggie's supporters.
 
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You seem.to have forgotten what was being challenged. It was the assertion that one couldn't lie about a self ID, or internally falsify it.
No, that was never the assertion. Why would it be? That assertion doesn't matter here. Only external falsifiability matters, so only external falsifiability was under discussion by everyone but you. You shoved it in for no reason. And you're still trying to shove it in when it doesn't matter, for God knows why. No one cares. This has been clarified to you multiple times now. Stop harping on irrelevancies.
 
Another account of the distinctly un-kind behaviour of trans activists.


Just waiting for the replies (I paraphrase slightly) saying, but but there are some men with special lady feelz who are not horrible narcissistic bullies and just want to get on with their lives quietly, and they will be sad if they're not allowed to use women's facilities and compete against women in sports and people aren't compelled by law to refer to them with feminine pronouns, so suck it up buttercup.
 
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It seems the trans activist pushback at gender critical speaking events is falling off, if this is anything to go by.....


....a couple of dozen people stood up, unfurled pink-and-blue trans flags and held up placards denouncing me in extravagant terms. My insistence that the two sexes, male and female, are objective categories and salient in a variety of legal and social situations is, apparently “the thin end of the fascist wedge”. I’m a danger to children because I argue against giving them drugs that halt their puberty and cause permanent physical and mental harm. The protesters then walked out.

Gone in 90 seconds!!!

Perhaps peak trans is in the rear view mirror now?
 
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You have a point. But even with religion, determining membership and authenticity of belief IS a problem. The courts have needed to establish methods to test these things, and those methods still get argued.
They do in some areas of discrimination law, and not in others.

If a landlord refuses to consider a prospective tenant because he believes her to be Muslim, it will not actually matter to the lawsuit that follows if she's actually Sikh. Her beliefs are immaterial.

So what methods will test trans identity?
If I own a restaurant (or whatever) where a customer complains about a man in women's room, the last thing I'm going to do is try to "test trans identity". That just seems like a good way to expose myself to liability. Instead, I'd just look for reasons to suspect ill intention.

And that's where we run into problems here, because by nature the accommodations being requested for trans identifying males impose on others.
No accommodations are being requested at all.

Second, does this test, whatever it is, actually serve to protect women from predatory males?
Given that there is no evidence of an increase in crime where gender identity non-discrimination laws have been implemented, I think the current state of law in New York works just fine to protect women from predatory males.
 
You are taking a very narrow view of what a public interest test could take into account. The UK equivalent allows single-sex spaces:
No, I'd just say that to the extent we can make sense out of considerations of privacy and decency in a public bathroom, they're already baked into law.

So sex-segregated spaces are allowed if the religion demands it?
No, not where "the religion demands it". The Olympus Spa case was notably argued on religion freedom grounds (among others), and those arguments predictably didn't fly. The spa likely received some bad legal advice.

But there's nothing stopping, say, a Catholic monastery or convent from segregating along biological lines.
 
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If I own a restaurant (or whatever) where a customer complains about a man in women's room, the last thing I'm going to do is try to "test trans identity". That just seems like a good way to expose myself to liability. Instead, I'd just look for reasons to suspect ill intention.
Good luck with that.
No accommodations are being requested at all.
Of course there is. Access to female spaces. That’s an accommodation.
Given that there is no evidence of an increase in crime where gender identity non-discrimination laws have been implemented,
Why do you think reported crimes are the only problem?
 
Did you think I meant nobody in world?

Unreasonable people exist, yes.
The movement as a whole is unreasonable, at least as it now stands. Indeed, it is inherently fatally flawed. The movement has made it clear that "trans women are women" i.e. that trans is an adjective. That is, they are to be treated as other women/girls in every way - with access to all women's/girls spaces, awards, relationships, etc. (& that any failure to do so is bigotry). To be sure, there are mixed messages from activists/allies with regard to actual sex - some claim they've actually changed sex, or that they have female brains in male bodies or that gender identity is more important than sex. None of these is true, nor is sex a spectrum.

The Cass and other reports are showing us what should have been obvious - that the evidence for transitioning helping mental health is weak.

If we want to help people with gender dysphoria, it's going to via better programs to help them come to terms with their (sexed) bodies, not fostering this illusion. Yes, younger folks are more willing to use pronouns and repeat the mantras, but when picking long-term partners, they're not going to see TWs as women.

Meanwhile, bad actor (whether "true trans" or not) incidents will add to growing resentment/rejection of the movement and give further fuel to the right (not only to attack the TQ+ movement, but the LGB as well).

On it's current course, the movement can only do damage - including to those with gender dysphoria.
 
Only external falsifiability matters, so only external falsifiability was under discussion by everyone but you.
This is precisely why I do not define transgender in terms of an internal sense of self—which is impossible to validate—but rather in terms of expressed requests for cross-sex accommodation. I treat Yaniv and Merager as trans women not because I'm convinced that they fit some particular DSM diagnostic criteria, but because they have clearly and repeatedly requested to be treated as if they were women in law and policy.

In taking this approach, I am putting into practice a meme once popular in social justice circles: “A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman” where "identifies" is taken as an act of communication to another human being rather than something you do in your own headspace.
 

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