The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[Mojo]

Do you have Andi Meister's book?

ETA: I see now where you announced receiving it; however, I do not see any subsequent discussion of its contents. Have you, in fact, found passages in the book that you can quote that substantiate your claim, or are you guessing as to its contents?

Possibly:

I can't read Estonian so I have no idea what is in Meister's book ...

 

[Mojo]

Also, no-one (as far as I am aware) has claimed that Voronin was a diplomat. Why, then would his name be "on the side of the diplomatic briefcase that was retrieved"? What even is a 'diplomatic briefcase'?

Something that sounds a bit more impressive than just 'briefcase', and implies government involvement.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, what does aerospace mean? What does software mean?

It's a translation from Estonian.

 

[Vixen]

Do you have Andi Meister's book?

ETA: I see now where you announced receiving it; however, I do not see any subsequent discussion of its contents. Have you, in fact, found passages in the book that you can quote that substantiate your claim, or are you guessing as to its contents?

Yes and yes. I am not sure what you mean by 'guessing'. Why would it need to be 'guessed' if I have it in front of me?

 

[Mojo]

Yes and yes. I am not sure what you mean by 'guessing'. Why would it need to be 'guessed' if I have it in front of me?

I can't read Estonian so I have no idea what is in Meister's book

 

[Mojo]

It's a translation from Estonian.

No, neither "aerospace" nor "software" means "it's a transition from Estonian".

 

[Vixen]

No, neither "aerospace" nor "software" means "it's a transition from Estonian".

Have a word with the journalist who wrote the article.

 

[Vixen]

Something that sounds a bit more impressive than just 'briefcase', and implies government involvement.

I quoted a newspaper article, as requested. I am not sure why you seem surprised different cultures use different terms or tanslations get lost. As the link to the postimees article is clearly visible, I am not sure why you are attributing the article or the translation to me. I didn't write it, honest!

 

[Vixen]

From A1 overview:

Software is a set of instructions, data or programs used to operate computers and execute specific tasks. It is the opposite of hardware, which describes the physical aspects of a computer. Software is a generic term used to refer to applications, scripts and programs that run on a device.

 

[Mojo]

I quoted a newspaper article, as requested. I am not sure why you seem surprised different cultures use different terms or tanslations get lost. As the link to the postimees article is clearly visible, I am not sure why you are attributing the article or the translation to me. I didn't write it, honest!

Who or what translated it?

 

[Vixen]

Who or what translated it?

Google translate.

 

[Mojo]

Have a word with the journalist who wrote the article.

When asked for a source for your claim that he dealt in spacecraft you provided a quotation saying that he was in aerospace. The conflation of the terms is clearly yours, not the journalist's.

 

[Mojo]

Google translate.

Are you claiming that Google's translation was not accurate when it used the term "aerospace" instead of "spacecraft"?

 

[Vixen]

Are you claiming that Google's translation was not accurate when it used the term "aerospace" instead of "spacecraft"?

And it is very important to know which of the two Voronin is said to have been smuggling because...?

 

[Mojo]

And it is very important to know which of the two Voronin is said to have been smuggling because...?

It goes to the credibility of the sources used. What was your source for the claim that he dealt in spacecraft?

 

[EHocking]

Rabe is just a journalist reporting information received from informants. I have no idea how reliable these informants are. However, Rabe and F Gregg Bemis were convinced enough to get DER SPIEGEL to sponsor the secret* dive to the MV Estonia to investigate for themselves, so convinced were they.

Der Spiegel never sponsored a dive on the wreck and most especially did not sponsor the Rabe and Bemis dives.
I will naturally wait (and wait and wait) for your cite/source for this assertion. Bemis financed it.

It’s quite amusing that your appeal to authority (Der Spiegel) fails so hard. As pointed out, she had worked for Spiegel TV, so you got that wrong as well.

And, From her entry on wiki,
“Spiegel-TV has dissociated itself from her coverage of the Estonia disaster.”
So not the great “gotcha” you thought that appeal to authority was going to be.

Margus Kurm was more recently sponsored by Postimees (>€770K) to make a similar expedition. People don't do this because they are 'conspiracy theorists' they do it out of a desire to discover the facts for themselves.

Riiiiiight. Because it was financed by someone and media was interested enough in something, it must be legit.
Another appeal to authority, just like Mike Hughes getting people to finance, and media to cover, his moronic attempts at rocketeering. Just because someone gave him money and air time does not make his claim that the earth is flat, a legitimate assertion.

 

[Vixen]

It goes to the credibility of the sources used. What was your source for the claim that he dealt in spacecraft?

Rabe is the source, as cited. Given she speaks German and Postimees is an Estonian newspaper translating from a German one and google translate is to English, then I daresay jargon gets 'interpretated' according to the hack writing the article or to the parameters of google translate. Please explain why it is important to know whether Voronin, suspected by Rabe of smuggling former Soviet technology secrets, is regarding aerospace or spacecraft given it is all highly confidential information and the journalist wouldn't know first hand and nor would Rabe.

 

[Vixen]

Der Spiegel never sponsored a dive on the wreck and most especially did not sponsor the Rabe and Bemis dives.
I will naturally wait (and wait and wait) for your cite/source for this assertion. Bemis financed it.

It’s quite amusing that your appeal to authority (Der Spiegel) fails so hard. As pointed out, she had worked for Spiegel TV, so you got that wrong as well.

And, From her entry on wiki,
“Spiegel-TV has dissociated itself from her coverage of the Estonia disaster.”
So not the great “gotcha” you thought that appeal to authority was going to be.

Riiiiiight. Because it was financed by someone and media was interested enough in something, it must be legit.
Another appeal to authority, just like Mike Hughes getting people to finance, and media to cover, his moronic attempts at rocketeering. Just because someone gave him money and air time does not make his claim that the earth is flat, a legitimate assertion.

I didn't say being sponsored means it 'must be legit' or even 'an appeal to authority'. I was stating facts. If you recall, you were arguing that because they had a big ship., complete with ROV's, platforms and divers, it can't be a 'secret dive' because....well you can see the boat!...?

 

[Mojo]

Rabe is the source, as cited. Given she speaks German and Postimees is an Estonian newspaper translating from a German one and google translate is to English, then I daresay jargon gets 'interpretated' according to the hack writing the article or to the parameters of google translate. Please explain why it is important to know whether Voronin, suspected by Rabe of smuggling former Soviet technology secrets, is regarding aerospace or spacecraft given it is all highly confidential information and the journalist wouldn't know first hand and nor would Rabe.

Why did you 'interpret' "aerospace" as "spacecraft"?

 

[Mojo]

I didn't say being sponsored means it 'must be legit' or even 'an appeal to authority'. I was stating facts. If you recall, you were arguing that because they had a big ship., complete with ROV's, platforms and divers, it can't be a 'secret dive' because....well you can see the boat!...?

What do you understand the word "secret" to mean?