General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Andy_Ross said:
History tells us that number can be achieved.
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Nobody is seeking such a thing, Andy.

The IAF is keeping their jets in the air, against a myriad of Islamic terrorist objectives.
In Syria, in Qatar, in Gaza, in Yemen.
It's hard to keep track.

One thing that's NOT happening is a genocide to wipe out the Palestinians, in whole or in part.

Trump is honored in Bat Yam, a few miles up the coastal road from Gaza.
www.israelnationalnews.com

PM attends ceremony for the President Donald Trump Promenade in Bat Yam

Prime Minister Netanyahu attends the cornerstone-laying ceremony for the 'President Donald Trump Promenade' in Bat Yam.
www.israelnationalnews.com www.israelnationalnews.com
 
arthwollipot said:
Israel has chosen violence. They have ensured that Hamas has no other choice.
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Sort of bonkers that you'd get Hamas and Israel completely switched about like this. One of those two governments kidnapped civilians and stashed them away in the most sophisticated tunnel system ever developed for the sake of warfare, while the other one felt compelled to wage war in order to get their people back.
arthwollipot said:
I would not be at all surprised if Hamas immediately murdered all remaining hostages and engaged in an all-out war of terror on all Israelis and Israeli property.
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I would be amazed if Hamas chose to give up their remaining leverage all at once like that.
 
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webfusion said:
Nobody is seeking such a thing, Andy.

The IAF is keeping their jets in the air, against a myriad of Islamic terrorist objectives.
In Syria, in Qatar, in Gaza, in Yemen.
It's hard to keep track.

One thing that's NOT IS happening is a genocide to wipe out the Palestinians, in whole or in part...
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FTFY. The genocide and starvation and war crimes are real.
 
webfusion said:
Immunity from prosecution: Lawful combatants have a "combatant's privilege" which grants them immunity from prosecution for taking a direct part in hostilities.
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Except for war crimes and crimes against humanity. At least in civilised countries, anyway. Soldiers who commit war crimes are not lawful combatants.

d4m10n said:
Sort of bonkers that you'd get Hamas and Israel completely switched about like this. One of those two governments kidnapped civilians and stashed them away in the most sophisticated tunnel system ever developed for the sake of warfare, while the other one felt compelled to wage war in order to get their people back.
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One of those two governments decided to murder thousands of innocent civilians, starve the entire population, force them out of their homes, and bomb their schools and hospitals to rubble. What was the ratio of Palestinians vs Israelis killed? Do you even know?

It's 56:1.

56 Palestinians for every Israeli killed since the massacre began in October 2023. Most of the Israelis killed were on October 7th. The Palestinian corpse count includes over 19,000 children.

This, to you, is just?
 
arthwollipot said:
One of those two governments decided to murder thousands of innocent civilians, starve the entire population, force them out of their homes, and bomb their schools and hospitals to rubble.
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No, both of those governments decided to make that happen; neither one could have made it happen by themselves.

Either government could have averted the situation you describe by surrendering unconditionally to the other one, but the rulers of Gaza decided it was worthwhile to hold on to their hostages and the rulers of Israel decided it was worthwhile to continue pressuring the rulers of Gaza to stop doing so in the only way they could.
 
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arthwollipot said:
Except for war crimes and crimes against humanity. At least in civilised countries, anyway. Soldiers who commit war crimes are not lawful combatants.


One of those two governments decided to murder thousands of innocent civilians, starve the entire population, force them out of their homes, and bomb their schools and hospitals to rubble. What was the ratio of Palestinians vs Israelis killed? Do you even know?

It's 56:1.

56 Palestinians for every Israeli killed since the massacre began in October 2023. Most of the Israelis killed were on October 7th. The Palestinian corpse count includes over 19,000 children.

This, to you, is just?
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d4m10n said:
No, both of those governments decided to make that happen; neither one could have made it happen by themselves.

Either one could have averted it by surrendering unconditionally to the other one.
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Which, of course, is never going to happen.
My Plague On Both Your Houses opinion on this grows stronger every day.
WHat is scary is how many people on both sides are willing to excuse and defend (although, of course, they deny they are doing that) anything the other side does.
And ,yeah, I am getting a "anything is justified in the name of the revolution" vibe from a couple of the Pro Palestinains people here.
 
arthwollipot said:
Except for war crimes and crimes against humanity. At least in civilised countries, anyway. Soldiers who commit war crimes are not lawful combatants.


One of those two governments decided to murder thousands of innocent civilians, starve the entire population, force them out of their homes, and bomb their schools and hospitals to rubble. What was the ratio of Palestinians vs Israelis killed? Do you even know?

It's 56:1.

56 Palestinians for every Israeli killed since the massacre began in October 2023. Most of the Israelis killed were on October 7th. The Palestinian corpse count includes over 19,000 children.

This, to you, is just?
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This is silly.Only reason the Israeli death toll is not higher is that HAMAS does not have the firepower that Israel does.
You reallly think HAMAS would hesitate to do what Isreal is doing if they had the firepower. You really that Naive?
I can get..and have...a plague on both your houses attitude toward this, but to pretend that either side is much better then the other just shows where your ideological bias lies.
 
dudalb said:
WHat is scary is how many people on both sides are willing to excuse and defend (although, of course, they deny they are doing that) anything the other side does.
And ,yeah, I am getting a "anything is justified in the name of the revolution" vibe from a couple of the Pro Palestinains people here.
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Acknowledgement of reality is not endorsement.

Can you tell the difference between "I would not be surprised if Hamas just murdered all of the hostages now" and "Hamas should just murder all the hostages now"?
 
What it's like to be ethnically cleansed out of your home:

www.theguardian.com

Israel is forcing us to leave Gaza City. We know they may never let us return

The Guardian’s reporter in Gaza describes the dilemma facing her family and others, many hungry, penniless and without transport
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

If we are displaced again, we know they may never let us return. We feel it strongly. They will turn what remained of Gaza City into ashes, as they did with my city, Beit Lahia, and the surrounding northern towns of Jabaliya and Beit Hanoun.

They will erase it from existence, destroying every trace of life, human, animal and tree. They will turn it all into grey rubble. When these thoughts cross our minds, we are overcome with grief and anger, frustrated with a world that could stop this but chooses instead to watch from afar.

We dreamed of being asked to return to our towns and neighbourhoods instead of going south. We hoped for a ceasefire to end this nightmare once and for all. We prayed for a miracle to foil the Israeli plan. Yet, once again, we are packing to leave.
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dudalb said:
This is silly.Only reason the Israeli death toll is not higher is that HAMAS does not have the firepower that Israel does.
You reallly think HAMAS would hesitate to do what Isreal is doing if they had the firepower. You really that Naive?
I can get..and have...a plague on both your houses attitude toward this, but to pretend that either side is much better then the other just shows where your ideological bias lies.
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The Walrus and the Carpenter. After hearing the poem, Alice says she likes the Walrus better because he expressed regret at eating the clams. When she was told the Walrus actually ate more clams than the Carpenter, she reversed herself and said therefore she liked the Carpenter better. To which the reply was the Carpenter may have eaten fewer than the Walrus but he ate as many as he could get: he would have eaten as many and more if he'd been able to.
 
Let's for a moment make a leap into the "whatabout..."

What would be the reaction here if Israel had not been able to deploy anti-missile technology? If the IAF was not in a position to handle any incoming UAV's? Or had no capability to deflect the aerial attacks from Iran, from Gaza, from Yemen? That Israeli cities were in flames, and tens of thousands dead? Would that change the dynamic here?
How quickly would TheWorld™ come to the assistance of Jews?

Just curious.
 
We are only doing what they want to do.
I'll agree that at least webfusion fully owns to supporting state terrorism because his side has better weapons and his adherence to the 'might makes right' idea that gave us the wondrous solutions to the Native American problem and every other ethnic cleansing done so far.

It's the claims that somehow Isreal is morally better than the other Middle Eastern nations that I find hypocritical.
 

Looks like the fascist plan to send hundreds of thousands or even millions of Palestinians to other countries is a dismal failure. Nobody wants to fund such efforts anymore since no countries want to take them, because they don't want to help Israel commit racist ethnic cleansing.

If the nation of Israel is unwilling to take in any people from Gaza, why should any other Nation do differently?
 
theprestige said:
"We didn't realize that the US was supporting Israel until we took a taxpayer funded junket and saw nothing to support this conclusion!"
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"Two Democratic senators claim they have reached the “inescapable conclusion” that Israel is acting on a systematic plan to destroy and ethnically cleanse Palestinians from Gaza to force locals to leave, and they say the US is complicit."
 
Chief of Staff Lt.Gen. Zamir wants to know what the Israeli Government intends to do with Gaza, after this new surge of troops runs through Gaza City like a hot knife through butter.

Chris VanHollen made a proper suggestion, back in March 2024.
He does, in fact, state: "So, look, again, ultimately, the only way to resolve this is ceasefire and return of the hostages..."

"When the president of the United States, you know, draws a red line the president needs to ensure that there’s an enforcement mechanism. Otherwise, you look, you know, feckless."

(He was, at the time, referring to Joe Biden, Mr. Feckless himself)
 
webfusion said:
Let's for a moment make a leap into the "whatabout..."

What would be the reaction here if Israel had not been able to deploy anti-missile technology? If the IAF was not in a position to handle any incoming UAV's? Or had no capability to deflect the aerial attacks from Iran, from Gaza, from Yemen? That Israeli cities were in flames, and tens of thousands dead? Would that change the dynamic here?
How quickly would TheWorld™ come to the assistance of Jews?

Just curious.
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If you had any knowledge of recent events you would know that the US, UK and France all actively partcipated in intercepting missiles fired from Iran at Israel. Other countries probably also partcipated.

However, my bet is that if Israel hadn't had such effective anti-missile systems it wouldn't have acted in such a provacative way against Iran, attacking a diplomatic site, commiting terror attacks in Iran etc. So Iran would never have responded by firing missiles at Israel. Both of Iran's missile attacks on Israel followed military action by Israel against Iranian citizens in Iranian territory.

www.reuters.com

France says it intercepted drones targeting Israel prior to Iran ceasefire

France's military took part in efforts to stop Iranian drones targeting Israel prior to this week's ceasefire, the country's defence minister Sebastien Lecornu said late on Wednesday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
www.bbc.co.uk

UK forces involved in response to Iran attacks on Israel

British forces "played their part" in attempts to prevent further escalation, the defence secretary says.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
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