General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

theprestige said:
Nothing about Hamas's past behavior leads me to believe they have any actual negotiating teams.
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Here's what the Doha mission was intended to accomplish -- by sending a message that all relevant parties want to see concluded the final exchange of hostages immediately, and there's no more negotiations regarding that point.
Israel has thousands of jailed Palestinians (including the dead) ready for being repatriated, and no more HAMAS leadership in Gaza will be tolerated, with an entirely new mechanism for the Palestinian National Authority (NewState of Palestine in-statu-nascendi) to transition to secular rule in Gaza once more.

We know that Jared Kushner was involved with talks recently in the Oval Office, and his overall goal is to reintroduce a variant of the GazaState, with all the resultant development that entails for decades to come.

Jerusalem's holy sites will be relegated to the same status as Al-Khalil (Hebron) with Royal Jordanian -- Hashemite -- honorary Guards in full dress standing at the gates. THAT will be the Israeli concession to the Palestinians regarding the Temple Mount's Foundation Stone and the Abrahamic shrine in Hebron.

Honestly, I believe the main problem preventing the return of hostages is more about HAMAS being unable to account for them all. This was hinted at previously when they couldn't prepare lists, because PIJ holds some and won't go along... and Hadar Goldin's remains might have been lost in the meantime, so that's a complete wild card.
 
Israel has never been interested in a cease fire. The only goals Israel has are the extermination of Palestinian people, the destruction of every piece of infrastructure in Gaza, and the expansion of Israel's borders into Jordan, Syria and Lebanon.

It is a waste of time for Hamas to even attempt negotiations now, if there was ever a point at all. Israel has chosen violence. They have ensured that Hamas has no other choice. I would not be at all surprised if Hamas immediately murdered all remaining hostages and engaged in an all-out war of terror on all Israelis and Israeli property.

Israel is not eliminating terrorists. It is creating more of them.
 
www.theguardian.com

The Gaza family torn apart by IDF snipers from Chicago and Munich

Five-month investigation reveals how four members of one family were shot and killed in a single day and highlights a pattern in which Israeli troops target unarmed civilians
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Daniel Raab shows no hesitation as he watches footage of 19-year-old Salem Doghmosh crumpling to the ground beside his brother in a street in northern Gaza.

“That was my first elimination,” he says. The video, shot by a drone, lasts just a few seconds. The Palestinian teenager appears to be unarmed when he is shot in the head.

Raab, a former varsity basketball player from a Chicago suburb who became an Israeli sniper, concedes he knew that. He says he shot Salem simply because he tried to retrieve the body of his beloved older brother Mohammed.

“It’s hard for me to understand why he [did that] and it also doesn’t really interest me,” Raab says in a video interview posted on X. “I mean, what was so important about that corpse?”
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“They’re thinking: ‘Oh I don’t think [I’ll get shot] because I’m wearing civilian clothes and I am not carrying a weapon and all that, but they were wrong,” said Raab, who majored in biology at the University of Illinois before joining the Israel Defense Forces. “That’s what you have snipers for.”

After Salem was shot, his father, Montasser, 51, rushed to the site, and tried to collect his sons’ bodies for burial, but was also fatally injured by a sniper.

The need for a dignified funeral for loved ones is a core human instinct, protected in law and explored in art for millennia. It is at the emotional heart of Homer’s Iliad, one of the earliest surviving works of literature.

But on that day, Raab treated love and grief as cause to kill. “They just kept on coming to try and take these bodies,” he said.
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Psychopath.
 
Horrific story in which the snipers themselves seem to take pride in shooting unarmed civilians for seemingly no reason. No guilt, no remorse for the purposeless murders.
 
While people are hand-wringing about 'annexation' for the lands across Judea&Samaria, in practice, it's already been annexed.

www.israelnationalnews.com

Haaretz reporter: 'Smotrich has effectively annexed Judea and Samaria'

Hagar Shezaf, the former Haaretz correspondent for Judea and Samaria, said that Smotrich carried out a revolution by transferring civilian authorities in Judea and Samaria into his hands.
www.israelnationalnews.com www.israelnationalnews.com

When the interviewer asked (Hagar Shezaf) whether Smotrich had won, she replied, "Completely, completely."
 
arthwollipot said:
So much for the scoffing at the idea of Greater Israel. Conspiracy theory? Ha.
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Come back and tell me when Israel annexes the best parts of Egypt, Iran and Iraq.

It’s no great surprise though. A lot of people believed the Protocols.This fantasy is not that far removed.
 
arthwollipot said:
It's only a plan when the plan is completed? Can there be no incremental steps along the way?
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Come off it. You are now embarrassing yourself. This is a classic CT. My comparison with the Protocols is valid.

AI’s position:

No, Greater Israel is not an official or explicit objective of the Israeli government, though settlement activity in the West Bank is sometimes linked by observers to a vision of a "Greater Israel" and the underlying ideology of some segments of the Israeli political spectrum. The Israeli government's stated goals are for security and self-determination
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I think the West Bank settlements are legitimate, but will go no further.
 
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arthwollipot said:
And we always trust what AI says. 🙄
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More than your and others fantasies. Just give up. Greater Israel might be a wet dream of some right wing Israelis and anti-semites who wish it was true, but it is not even a remote possibility.

I mean, seriously? The only fertile and productive parts of Egypt, Iran and Iraq taken over? Ridiculous.
 
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I can't actually think of a single time in international diplomacy in the last 200 years or so where a country blatantly attempts to assassinate a group of enemy negotiators in a third nation, especially if those negotiators where there at least partially at the request of an ally.
And that includes Nazi Germany and Stalin's USSR.
 
arthwollipot said:
www.theguardian.com

The Gaza family torn apart by IDF snipers from Chicago and Munich

Five-month investigation reveals how four members of one family were shot and killed in a single day and highlights a pattern in which Israeli troops target unarmed civilians
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com





Psychopath.
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As a US citizen he may have broken federal law on war crimes. Where the alleged criminal is a US citizen he is subject to federal law even if the crime was commited outside the US and the victim is a non-US citizen. There seems sufficient evidence to bring a case. It will be interesting whether the FBI launches an investigation.
 
There's no case, planigale.
Immunity from prosecution: Lawful combatants have a "combatant's privilege" which grants them immunity from prosecution for taking a direct part in hostilities.

What the IDF has been doing is creating "No-Mans Lands" and that is a military objective/tactic unto itself.
The Gazans are realizing that straying into these zones is not a good idea. At all.
(And the GHF security men taught the onrushing masses to behave themselves and line up as directed, instead of creating riot situations. In the MidEast, the mindset is that violence can be applied to solve issues. The Gazans understand that protocol is being applied, and it's altered their conduct, which as we've noticed, they aren't making a scene at the GHF sites). Whoever thought of bringing in American good ol' boys to handle these missions was a genius.
 
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