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...Shall Not Be Infringed

Somebody might be, quite possibly your loved one. Don;t take this the wrong way, brah, but you don't sound like a crack shot marksman who has taken a lot of time to practice realistic scenarios. The odds of you putting a bullet in your loved one are not exactly non-zero.

I don't make as heavy a distinction between people I personally care about and a stranger....
I see that.

All I can tell you is that I really really care about my loved ones and friends, over some piece of ◊◊◊◊ that is threatening them with a knife.

I'm sure the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ holding a knife to my loved ones throat has somebody somewhere that cares about them, but life is about choices and the guy with a knife has chosen very poorly. Not my problem. I will always choose the life of innocent victims of violence first.
 
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The vast majority of gun owners never shoot anyone. Its only a very tiny fraction.

There are many other societies that have lots of guns, and MUCH lower violent crime rates than the USA. Clearly the problem is not too many guns.
There is truth here, although guns are clearly part of the problem as the make violence a lot more dangerous and deadly. The truth there is that the US is generally more violent than pretty much every Western nation outside of Latin America. In the Americas its really Canada that is the outlier.

Murder isn't the best proxy for what I'm looking for, murder is easier with guns.
 
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I see that.

All I can tell you is that I really really care about my loved ones and friends, over some piece of ◊◊◊◊ that is threatening them with a knife.

I'm sure the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ holding a knife to my loved ones throat somebody somewhere that cares about them, but life is about choices and the guy with a knife has chosen very poorly. Not my problem.
Totally get that, and agree. My sticking point is that the visceral desire to protect your loved ones at all costs comes with a ton of work and responsibility when the gun gets drawn. Talking the knife guy down might be the best way to get your loved one out alive, uncut by him and unshot by you.
 
There is truth here, although guns are clearly part of the problem as the make violence a lot more dangerous and deadly. The truth there is that the US is generally more violent than pretty much every Western nation outside of Latin America. In the Americas its really Canada that is the outlier.

Murder isn't the best proxy for what I'm looking for, murder is easier with guns.
Yep, we have a small minority of very very sick and sociopathic individuals. But vast majority of Americans are not like these people.
 
Totally get that, and agree. My sticking point is that the visceral desire to protect your loved ones at all costs comes with a ton of work and responsibility when the gun gets drawn. Talking the knife guy down might be the best way to get your loved one out alive, uncut by him and unshot by you.
Im not a psychologist or a social worker. But I am a pretty good shot.
 
Im not a psychologist or a social worker. But I am a pretty good shot.
If you want your loved one out alive, ya becomes a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ social worker. Almost anyone can be talked down, if you get in their heads. If they are holding a knife on someone, they are not actively trying to kill them. They want something else. Figure out what it is, fast.
 
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If you want your loved one out alive, ya becomes a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ social worker...
Or, you just shoot the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ with the knife.

I'm sorry but the lives of innocent people are worth more than the life of a sociopath armed criminal.
 
Or, you just shoot the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ with the knife.

I'm sorry but the lives of innocent people are worth more than the life of a sociopath armed criminal.
I'm talking about the life of the innocent. You are talking about playing hero, with apparently little regard for your odds of successfully sniping your target, who is in intimate contact with the person you are trying to save. Have you considered a bullet passing through your target and hitting your loved one? You still gonna feel like Batman if the knife guy lives with a scar and your loved one is crippled or killed from your shooting?

You don't shoot till there is no other choice, period.
 
I'm talking about the life of the innocent. You are talking about playing hero, with apparently little regard for your odds of successfully sniping your target, who is in intimate contact with the person you are trying to save. Have you considered a bullet passing through your target and hitting your loved one? You still gonna feel like Batman if the knife guy lives with a scar and your loved one is crippled or killed from your shooting?

You don't shoot till there is no other choice, period.
I will say though that's often not exactly clear. When there is no longer any choice that is. I see a lot of armchair quarterbacking on these sorts of things, often including anecdotes about the time the writer experienced something similar and was an utter badass.

But I think most folks agree, don't shoot until you think you have to, lots of folks have very different thresh holds for that though.
 
Yes, and I will use deadly force to protect them against armed sociopaths.

The lives of the innocent are worth more than the lives of evil armed criminals.
If you are not training with that gun daily, till you can quick draw and hit an apple at 30 feet, and have familiarized yourself with every conceivable scenario, knowing where you can and can't shoot, then you don't give a flying ◊◊◊◊ about your loved ones. You just want to be a hero. Being a handgun hero takes much more work than most people are willing to do.

ETA: I ain't trying to bust your chops, btw. People's overconfidence with their firearm prowess is always a source of aggravation to yours truly. Owning a gun and practicing in controlled conditions at a range once a week is not remotely enough to make anyone a street enforcer. It's a ton of work. I've met maybe two or three guys who actually put that level of work in, and they are all ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ nuts. Good shots, and will hit their target, but stone cold psychos.

More importantly, valuing the innocent is worlds away from having the technical skill and discipline to actually help them with your gun.
 
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If you are not training with that gun daily, till you can quick draw and hit an apple at 30 feet, and have familiarized yourself with every conceivable scenario, knowing where you can and can't shoot, then you don't give a flying ◊◊◊◊ about your loved ones....
Not even the most Liberal Progressive strong gun regulation state requires daily gun training. Your fantasy is silly and absurd.
 
Not even the most Liberal Progressive strong gun regulation state requires daily gun training. Your fantasy is silly and absurd.
You seem to be actively hallucinating. I didn't say anything about state regulation.

Perhaps you should surrender your gun till the hallucinations subside?
 
You seem to be actively hallucinating. I didn't say anything about state regulation.

Perhaps you should surrender your gun till the hallucinations subside?
I think he is saying that he will not train regularly unless it is mandated by law.
 
I think he is saying that he will not train regularly unless it is mandated by law.
I'm sure he trains. Once in a while, and with no actual close quarter firing consideration.

I like guns. They are fun. But I don't own a handgun, because I am not interested in killing people. It's one of those things I studiously try to avoid, although I have spent much of my adulthood sparring, which I've actually used against others IRL. For handgun usage, I get my rocks off sufficiently with a cheap airsoft pistol, with biodegradable shot.
 
You seem to be actively hallucinating. I didn't say anything about state regulation.

Perhaps you should surrender your gun till the hallucinations subside?
I trust the most Liberal Progressive anti-gun states to know how much is the minimum training someone should do to be able to deal with a situation.
 
I'm sure he trains. Once in a while, and with no actual close quarter firing consideration.

I like guns. They are fun. But I don't own a handgun, because I am not interested in killing people. It's one of those things I studiously try to avoid, although I have spent much of my adulthood sparring, which I've actually used against others IRL. For handgun usage, I get my rocks off sufficiently with a cheap airsoft pistol, with biodegradable shot.
I enjoyed target shooting when I was in military reserves in my younger days. Good proper training prior to shooting - you cannot fire a gun that you cannot disassemble, clean, and reassemble! Some serious firepower in some of those old weapons (see ETA below). I have never fired or owned a hand gun and as a civilian have never fired anything more powerful than a pellet gun. I am certainly not anti gun. I do enjoy feasting on the results of my friends hunting trips. But somehow have never been able to see fear of violence as a viable reason for gun ownership.

ETA sometimes the guns I fired were 105mm Howitzers 😁
 
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I'm sure he trains. Once in a while, and with no actual close quarter firing consideration.

I like guns. They are fun. But I don't own a handgun, because I am not interested in killing people....

I don't think anyone is actually interested in killing people.

But they are interested in saving the lives of the innocent and themselves when police are far away and time is of the essence.
 
I enjoyed target shooting when I was in military reserves in my younger days. Good proper training prior to shooting - you cannot fire a gun that you cannot disassemble, clean, and reassemble! Some serious firepower in some of those old weapons. I have never fired or owned a hand gun and as a civilian have never fired anything more powerful than a pellet gun. I am certainly not anti gun. I do enjoy feasting on the results of my friends hunting trips. But somehow have never been able to see fear of violence as a viable reason for gun ownership.
You don't think that self-protection and protecting others is a viable reason to own a gun? Interesting.
 
I trust the most Liberal Progressive anti-gun states to know how much is the minimum training someone should do to be able to deal with a situation.
I don't trust them to know ◊◊◊◊ about ◊◊◊◊. And we were not remotely discussing that anyway.
 

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