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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Vixen said:
Er, you haven't heard of the Russian spies working in current day USA? Spies are everywhere, keeping an eye on what everybody else is doing. Especially in the Cold War era and immediately after,
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Yes, I have heard of spies. Intelligence and strategic studies were part of my degree remember?

You've not actually provided any information though. What software do you think they were smuggling? What evidence do you have that they were doing so? Was it space rocket software? Why do you think the US would be stealing Russian software in 1994 and smuggling it aboard the Estonia?
 
Vixen said:
Please explain.
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You quoted a post and then said completely irrelevant guff vis a vis the post you quoted. It would be like if I quoted you saying that you think Finland has a good chance of getting into the World Cup only to start talking about the weather in Helsinki.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
So why did you use him as a source to claim the Egyptians were disappeared?
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'Bollyn' does not have ownership of this fact. Please see:
UNHCR

https://www.refworld.org/cases,CAT,42ce734a2.html

ECHR

Human Rights Library

http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/undocs/1416-2005.html

In July 2008 and September 19, 2008, they were each awarded 3 million SEK ($380,000) in damages in a settlement with the Swedish ministry of justice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery

Ahmed Agiza (Arabic: أحمد عجيزة) and Muhammad Alzery (Arabic: محمد الزيري) (also Elzari, el-Zary, etc.) were two Egyptian asylum-seekers who were deported to Egypt from Sweden on December 18, 2001, apparently following a request from the United States Central Intelligence Agency.
 
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MarkCorrigan said:
Yes, I have heard of spies. Intelligence and strategic studies were part of my degree remember?

You've not actually provided any information though. What software do you think they were smuggling? What evidence do you have that they were doing so? Was it space rocket software? Why do you think the US would be stealing Russian software in 1994 and smuggling it aboard the Estonia?
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Estonia had the old USSR stuff. Smuggling was going on like crazy. Imagine how easy it is to just hop onto a ferry.
 
Vixen said:
'Bollyn' does not have ownership of this fact. Please see:
UNHCR

https://www.refworld.org/cases,CAT,42ce734a2.html

ECHR

Human Rights Library

http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/undocs/1416-2005.html

In July 2008 and September 19, 2008, they were each awarded 3 million SEK ($380,000) in damages in a settlement with the Swedish ministry of justice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al-Zery

Ahmed Agiza (Arabic: أحمد عجيزة) and Muhammad Alzery (Arabic: محمد الزيري) (also Elzari, el-Zary, etc.) were two Egyptian asylum-seekers who were deported to Egypt from Sweden on December 18, 2001, apparently following a request from the United States Central Intelligence Agency.
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None of that meets the initial claim that you made, that they were disappeared. You're attempting to gaslight everyone again. You do know that we remember what you claimed, right?
 
Sorry, I thought it was a well-known and common knowledge fact that Germany was not a signatory to the Estonia Treaty, and therefore exempt from it. Blaming me for simply being better informed than yourself and then throwing around personal barbs as though I am to blame for your lack of common knowledge in a horrid sneering way.
 
Vixen said:
Sorry, I thought it was a well-known and common knowledge fact that Germany was not a signatory to the Estonia Treaty, and therefore exempt from it. Blaming me for simply being better informed than yourself and then throwing around personal barbs as though I am to blame for your lack of common knowledge in a horrid sneering way.
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No one is doing this. Again, are you ok? I'm genuinely concerned that you might not be.

You quoted a post, talked about something that wasn't an answer to the points raised in the post, then claimed you didn't know what post was being referred to and now you're claiming it was an answer?
 
MarkCorrigan said:
No one is doing this. Again, are you ok? I'm genuinely concerned that you might not be.

You quoted a post, talked about something that wasn't an answer to the points raised in the post, then claimed you didn't know what post was being referred to and now you're claiming it was an answer?
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Here's the exchange:

Vixen said:
The Estonia Treaty (grave peace) excludes Germany as it didn't sign it, so what people do is visit under a German flag. Swedish and Finnish coastguards patrol the area but German boats are exempt from breaking the treaty.
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"As is often the case, your answer is completely disconnected from the post you're replying to. Try again. [Zooterkin]"

Because zoooterkin didn't understand the points made re:

Axxman300 said:
Has anyone pointed out how damned hard it would be to dive on the Estonia unnoticed? For Vixen's claim to be real, Sweden would have to fear some rogue dive team sneaking aboard the ship to retrieve the briefcase, and whatever else, and then slipping away. That would be hard for the US and Royal Navies to pull off, even with our cool sneaky submarine technology. This entire rabbit hole is an exercise in delusional thinking.
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The Estonia Treaty (grave peace) excludes Germany as it didn't sign it, so what people do is visit under a German flag. Swedish and Finnish coastguards patrol the area but German boats are exempt from breaking the treaty.

Is this all clear now, I was again unfairly snarked because zooterkin didn't understand the point about diving under a German flag? His lack of common knowledge translates into 'Vixenworld' as though it is my fault he can't comprehend the issue under topic.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
No one is doing this. Again, are you ok? I'm genuinely concerned that you might not be.

You quoted a post, talked about something that wasn't an answer to the points raised in the post, then claimed you didn't know what post was being referred to and now you're claiming it was an answer?
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I am perfectly well thanks. Looks like the Simonton gap is kicking in again or please tell me what you find incomprehensible and I'll try to explain.
 
Vixen said:
Here's the exchange:


"As is often the case, your answer is completely disconnected from the post you're replying to. Try again. [Zooterkin]"

Because zoooterkin didn't understand the points made re:


The Estonia Treaty (grave peace) excludes Germany as it didn't sign it, so what people do is visit under a German flag. Swedish and Finnish coastguards patrol the area but German boats are exempt from breaking the treaty.

Is this all clear now, I was again unfairly snarked because zooterkin didn't understand the point about diving under a German flag? His lack of common knowledge translates into 'Vixenworld' as though it is my fault he can't comprehend the issue under topic.
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That doesn't answer the post you quoted.

Note that Axxman300 wasn't saying no one could sail into the Baltic. He's talking about secret dive teams.

Again, are you sure you're ok?
 
Vixen said:
I am perfectly well thanks. Looks like the Simonton gap is kicking in again or please tell me what you find incomprehensible and I'll try to explain.
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Back to claiming that you're smarter than everyone else again are you?

I could do with a laugh, what's your IQ then, since you're so much further ahead you think there's a Simonton gap in play here?
 
MarkCorrigan said:
That doesn't answer the post you quoted.

Note that Axxman300 wasn't saying no one could sail into the Baltic. He's talking about secret dive teams.

Again, are you sure you're ok?
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For crying out loud Bemis, Rabe, Evertsson and Kurm were all 'secret' dive teams, which the coastguards could do nothing about! Axxman didn't believe anyone could go diving there, which is correct, but excludes teams ariving from Germany under a German flag. How is this 'once again' my fault if someone didn't follow the gist? Instead of asking for clarification, they jeer it is my fault they didn't get it.
 
Vixen said:
No way am I going to set myself up for a kicking.
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But you're claiming that you're so much smarter than everyone else here we aren't able to follow along with your argument. So pony up, how much smarter are you that you feel justified in claiming that we're simply incapable of following along?
 
Vixen said:
'Disappeared' is the colloquialism of 'renditioned'. If there was cargo on board destined for the CIA then
it seems perfectly possible the CIA ordered the rendition of Piht and the senior Estonian crew to be dealt with as terrorists, as with the template for 9/11.
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For someone who has criticised others for what you see as conjecture, your posts sure are full of "ifs" "it seems" "it's possible" etc. You've got nothing but a pile of hypotheses, conjectures, what ifs, possibilities, etc. shored up by unreliable sources you have repeatedly misunderstood and/or misrepresented.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
But you're claiming that you're so much smarter than everyone else here we aren't able to follow along with your argument. So pony up, how much smarter are you that you feel justified in claiming that we're simply incapable of following along?
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I didn't say you were incapable of following along, I was complaining of being attacked when I have done nothing wrong at all.
 
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