Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Manger Douse]

You forgot to read. The cited study draws on data going back to the 70s, before transgender was even a widely understood phenomenon, and the word was scarcely in use yet.

The prison statistics @smartcooky quoted were from 2019

76 offenders from years gone by in a single jurisdiction in a planet of billions is not representative enough to draw conclusions by anyone loosely familiar with statistical inference.

Years gone? The prison statistics @smartcooky quoted were from 2019

 

[Thermal]

The prison statistics @smartcooky quoted were from 2019

Years gone? The prison statistics @smartcooky quoted were from 2019

You're right, I misspoke. The 2020 findings were assessing the validity of the Swedish Study going back to subjects from the 70s.

The criticism is the same. A small group in one locale does not a globally extractable conclusion make.

Many here say prisoners "fake" being trans (as Bryson did) to get different treatment while incarcerated. Are they factored into the 2020 data?

One can say black people in America are more criminal.by nature based on incarceration stats. But we know that they are disproportionately incarcerated because of prosecutorial bias and lack of adequate legal counsel. Is that factored into the 2020 data?

Smartcookys little factoid is championed by those who hate dem trannys and employ their confirmation bias to see what they want to see. I ain't one of them.

 

[d4m10n]

A subjective declaration is, by definition, not going to be objectively verifiable.

The declaration itself is all that matters for purposes of self-i.d.

For example, the folks at Wi Spa made it clear to the women and girls who complained that spa operators and employees were bound to respect Merager's declaration of womanhood.

Is Merager being sincere? No idea.

Does that matter? No.

 

[Manger Douse]

You're right, I misspoke. The 2020 findings were assessing the validity of the Swedish Study going back to subjects from the 70s.

The criticism is the same. A small group in one locale does not a globally extractable conclusion make.

Given your proven poor reading skills I need more than your say so on this

Many here say prisoners "fake" being trans (as Bryson did) to get different treatment while incarcerated. Are they factored into the 2020 data?

Tell us how we know someone is faking being trans and we'll factor that into the data

One can say black people in America are more criminal.by nature based on incarceration stats. But we know that they are disproportionately incarcerated because of prosecutorial bias and lack of adequate legal counsel. Is that factored into the 2020 data?

If any of these transwomen have been unfairly incarcerated I'm yet to hear it from the vocal and violent trans rights movement. I think its more likely transwomen have been let off easily

Smartcookys little factoid is championed by those who hate dem trannys and employ their confirmation bias to see what they want to see. I ain't one of them.

Are you sure you understand those words? You didn't understand the date of @smartcooky's study was 2019 despite casting aspersions on my own reading comprehension numerous times?

 

[Thermal]

The declaration itself is all that matters for purposes of self-i.d.

You keep trying to conflate "what it is" with "how it can be abused". They are not equivalent.

For example, the folks at Wi Spa made it clear to the women and girls who complained that spa operators and employees were bound to respect Merager's declaration of womanhood.

Is Merager being sincere? No idea.

Does that matter? No.

If we are going to do Merager yet again, what was the spas policy and declaration to users there? Without that answer, we can't take Cubana Angel and her Jesus is Lord coattailers at their word that they had no reason to expect this (and it wasnt what he was accused of anyway).

He was referred to as both he and she at his trial, so I don't think his gender was the problem. As the jury foreman said, the problem was that the charge required proof of doing so for sexual gratification, not whether a male was even appropriate there.

 

[Thermal]

Given your proven poor reading skills I need more than your say so on this

Tell us how we know someone is faking being trans and we'll factor that into the data

It's your side claiming it (while simultaneously claiming it can't exist). Ball's in your court.

If any of these transwomen have been unfairly incarcerated I'm yet to hear it from the vocal and violent trans rights movement.

Tale it up with them.

I think its more likely transwomen have been let off easily

Of course they were.

Are you sure you understand those words? You didn't understand the date of @smartcooky's study was 2019 despite casting aspersions on my own reading comprehension numerous times?

Are you planning to do the dildo thing where you keep harping on a mistake I freely acknowledged I made? That's the very definition of bad faith posting.

 

[Manger Douse]

It's your side claiming it (while simultaneously claiming it can't exist). Ball's in your court.

You're the one claiming these fake trans have tainted the data

Tale it up with them.

You're the one claiming unfair incarceration has tainted the data

Of course they were.

The double standard of UK authorities remains undeniable

Are you planning to do the dildo thing where you keep harping on a mistake I freely acknowledged I made? That's the very definition of bad faith posting.

I will bring it up you if you ever expect me to take your word for anything and I think its fair to ask for an apology for the multiple aspersions you cast on my reading skills

 

[Thermal]

You're the one claiming these fake trans have tainted the data

You're the one claiming unfair incarceration has tainted the data

Both lies. I asked if they had been factored in, and both were based on claims made by Team Anti Trans.

Now, you have yet again deliberately lied about my position. You have done so multiple times across multiple exchanges. So:

I will bring it up you if you ever expect me to take your word for anything and I think its fair to ask for an apology for the multiple aspersions you cast on my reading skills

I do apologize for the snark. This thread gets me very cranky.

Now, you're up.

 

[Manger Douse]

Both lies. I asked if they had been factored in, and both were based on claims made by Team Anti Trans.

You're implying the data provided by @smartcooky might be tainted from lacking this information and your argument that transwomen aren't over represented in committing sexual assault relies on this information - you need to provide this information to prove your argument

 

[Thermal]

You're implying the data provided by @smartcooky might be tainted from lacking this information and your argument that transwomen aren't over represented in committing sexual assault relies on this information - you need to provide this information to prove your argument

As suspected, you show zero integrity and continue bad faith posting. And we're done.

 

[d4m10n]

You keep trying to conflate "what it is" with "how it can be abused"

Let's talk about what it is, then.

Identification is an act or instance of identifying, as in when one identifies the make and model of an airplane flying over head.

Self-identification is an act or instance of identifying oneself, as when one tells the nice lady at the front desk one's name.

Self-identification in the context of this thread is when you tell someone whether you would prefer to be treated as a woman, man, or neither whenever gender becomes relevant, e.g. "Where is the changing room?"

It is literally impossible to get this wrong without lying about your own preferences.

 

[d4m10n]

If we are going to do Merager yet again, what was the spas policy and declaration to users there?

Why should that matter if they felt bound by CA law in any event?

 

[Manger Douse]

As suspected, you show zero integrity and continue bad faith posting. And we're done.

If you think there is a problem with @smartcooky's numbers then its up to you to prove it and not just JAQ off - its certainly not bad faith to demand the burden of proof be respected

 

[Thermal]

Let's talk about what it is, then.

Identification is an act or instance of identifying, as in when one identifies the make and model of an airplane flying over head.

Self-identification is an act or instance of identifying oneself, as when one tells the nice lady at the front desk one's name.

Ok, but not slamming relevant to the compound term being used here.

Self-identification in the context of this thread is when you tell someone whether you would prefer to be treated as a woman, man, or neither whenever gender becomes relevant, e.g. "Where is the changing room?"

No, its when you state your inner sense of self on the gender scale. Definitionally, this is a true statement that you subjectively observe. It is absolutely not choosing a label without regard to is veracity.

It is literally impossible to get this wrong without lying about your own rpreferences

No idea how you made that parkour level leap.

Eta: it sounds like you are repeating my position as your own after arguing against it?

 

[Thermal]

Why should that matter if they felt bound by CA law in any event?

Alerting clients to unusual conditions in good faith. They spell out the general nudity thing, advising that the experience was not for the modest. Why wouldn't you disclose that compliance with law might have unexpected consequences to an oblivious end user?

I recall that the log flume at Disney World advises that riders may get wet. I mean, if they can spell out the possibly unexpected consequences of compliance with the 100% foreseeable laws of physics, I don't see why it is so difficult to spell out the possibly unexpected consequences of compliance with state law.

 

[d4m10n]

No, its when you state your inner sense of self on the gender scale.

I've no idea what this means after taking away the part I said about saying how you'd prefer to be treated by others whenever social situations become gendered. Care to unpack it?

 

[Thermal]

I've no idea what this means after taking away the part I said about saying how you'd prefer to be treated by others whenever social situations become gendered. Care to unpack it?

It's the difference between "I prefer to be treated like a god" and "I am a god".

Eta: I'm pretty sure some smacked ass here will pipe up "but you are not a god! Checkmate, tranny lover!', so let me head that off: I said it's the *difference* between them.

Were I to say "I prefer to be treated like Thermal", the 'like' carries the vibe that it's not who I am; I'm comparing how I prefer to be treated to someone else. "I am Thermal" carries no such once-removed-ness.

 

[mumblethrax]

Prison statistics are measures of crime rates

They can be. The statistics presented were not.

Public bathrooms and changing rooms are both places where women seek safety from predators - predators that use the same methods in both situations.

I don't see any reason to believe that women, by and large, view public bathrooms as places to seek safety from predators. As already mentioned, I think there are circumstances where this would not be at all advisable.

Gender identity non-discrimination can only imply unisex facilities and I don't recognise the authority of the NYC transit system over the English language

This is incorrect, nothing I said implies that anything like authority over the English language, and NYC transit system? What on earth are you talking about?

 

[d4m10n]

Were I to say "I prefer to be treated like Thermal", the 'like' carries the vibe that it's not who I am; I'm comparing how I prefer to be treated to someone else. "I am Thermal" carries no such once-removed-ness.

Compare "I am a man" with "I identify as a man" and ask which has the feeling of once-removed-ness.

In my view, the second statement is at once an admission (not a man in the usual way) and a request (treat me as if I were anyhow).

 

[Thermal]

Compare "I am a man" with "I identify as a man" and ask which has the feeling of once-removed-ness.

In my view, the second statement is at once an admission (not a man in the usual way) and a request (treat me as if I were anyhow).

On that very different comparison, I agree. It's also why I think trans folk know full and well they aren't what they are/have trans-ed to, and are nodding to that reality. Not all, but I'd think most.