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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

JesseCuster said:
Continualy telling people to search these forums or to search YouTube for a citation for evidence which you want to use is a lazy and sloppy debate tactic. Are you that unwilling or incapable of digging out the evidence that you wish to use in the debate?

edit: Vixen, surely you know that when asked for citation of your evidence, that previous posts on this forum that you refuse to cite, or YouTube videos that you tell others to search for, just won't cut it. These forums or YouTube are not a primary source for evidence of what happened on the Estonia.
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Hands up, everybody who wants to discuss this all over again. <fx: quick head count> Zero. No-one. Nada. Compu'er says no.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
The stupid thing is that although divers did search cabins they could get into, and they did find a briefcase, somehow Vixen has become convinced that finding a particular briefcase was the intended purpose of their dive, and that it was Piht's they were sent to get, not Voronin's. So far as I can tell, that mission exists solely in Vixen's imagination.
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That's because the Brit diver who accessed the cabin made a point of spelling out the name on the attaché case to the guy on the controls. This after going to a great deal of trouble, to access the cabin, which was enormously hazardous. AIUI the guy carried the briefcase chained to his arm.
 
Axxman300 said:
Before we blow off this red-shirt guy completely, do we know if there was a Federation Star Ship in the area that night? Should we notify the Federation's Temporal Police?
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For a red shirt? Most they'll do is maybe have a shuttlecraft cruise past. So long as the number of ensigns and security guys is back up to muster by the start of the next season they don't care. Barely even keep records.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Didn't you read? it was secret!
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It occurs to me that as Vixen has let it slip that she is privy to the 'secret' and classified aspects of this sailing, sinking, and investigation that she has been planted here by those in-the-know to provide misdirection and sow confusion through posting nonsense among those who start to approach the truth. The posting nonsense part seems to be somewhat successful.
 
Vixen said:
That's because the Brit diver who accessed the cabin made a point of spelling out the name on the attaché case to the guy on the controls. This after going to a great deal of trouble, to access the cabin, which was enormously hazardous. AIUI the guy carried the briefcase chained to his arm.
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What is your evidence for this?
 
Andy_Ross said:
What is your source for adive team sent to recover an attaché case?

If the dives were secret how do you know about them?

What radioactivity?
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The recorded Rockwater divers from the UK and Ireland. (You can search.) Kari Lehtola, a lawyer, head of the Finnish JAIC asked some divers going down to pump out some leaking oil to test for radioactivity whilst they were down there. He had his private reservations.
 
dorricc0 said:
Can we rewind a little? This part of the discussion started because @Vixen asserted that only authorised persons are allowed on the bridge, and those authorised persons were identified by their uniforms (a picture of a uniform was presented), and therefore someone dressed in red was suspicious (or is it strange!). Several respondents including @Andy_Ross and myself pointed out that there were numerous reasons for a non-uniformed person being on the bridge.

And your response to all that is to say the above?

Whether they were dressed in red, brown, or sky blue pink, can you help us out here and explain why this is significant?
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No, it started with EHocking asking about the guy in red. I tried to help out but it seems no good deed goes unpunished.
 
Vixen said:
The recorded Rockwater divers from the UK and Ireland. (You can search.) Kari Lehtola, a lawyer, head of the Finnish JAIC asked some divers going down to pump out some leaking oil to test for radioactivity whilst they were down there. He had his private reservations.
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No I won't search, you made the claim you should support it.
 
Vixen said:
That's because the Brit diver who accessed the cabin made a point of spelling out the name on the attaché case to the guy on the controls.
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"That's because..."? What's because? Are you saying you convinced yourself the divers were sent to search specifically for a case belonging to Piht because they tried to read the Russian name on a case they found? How on earth did you reach that conclusion?

Vixen said:
This after going to a great deal of trouble, to access the cabin, which was enormously hazardous.
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They entered a bunch of cabins, if they could get access. Some doors they tried to force or pry the hinges. Why have you fixated on one person and on one personal item?

Vixen said:
AIUI the guy carried the briefcase chained to his arm.
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What makes you think that? And which guy? Piht? Obviously Voronin wasn't chained to his.
 
Steve said:
It occurs to me that as Vixen has let it slip that she is privy to the 'secret' and classified aspects of this sailing, sinking, and investigation that she has been planted here by those in-the-know to provide misdirection and sow confusion through posting nonsense among those who start to approach the truth. The posting nonsense part seems to be somewhat successful.
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Busted!
 
Searching this interminable thread for past posts digs up some interesting claims by Vixen, such that Voronin was a grossly overweight staunch Zionist (Vixen has mentioned Voronin's supposed staunch or ardent Zionism multiple times) but I can't find anything resembling a citation or evidence for either claim, and Vixen says that Voronin's staunch Zionism is a "known fact". Can't find anything on these forums or anywhere online to corroborate that claim.
 
Vixen said:
Hands up, everybody who wants to discuss this all over again. <fx: quick head count> Zero. No-one. Nada. Compu'er says no.
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You're willing to go to the trouble of citing the publisher, year, author, book title, page number, etc. for irrelevant guff in books about World War II, but you're incapable or unwilling to provide any citations for claims about strange dead bodies in red with bullet wounds, that are directly linked to the Estonia sinking. Why?
 
Andy_Ross said:
What is your evidence for this?
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Andi Meister, as reported by
  • JOHAN RIDDERSTOLPE
  • Engineer

  • 1999.02.03
A bag was also searched for that was handcuffed to the wrist of a passenger. This passenger was found near a dance restaurant.
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  • The police are looking for suitcases and one is found in the cabin 6230. This suitcase could have belonged to the Estonian citizen Alexander Voronin who survived the accident. The case have a name tag with his name attached. He has stated that he had was in the cabin 6320, but he can have remembered wrongly. A strange coincident is that according to the Purser onboard the cabin 6230 was Avo Piht's, the disappeared Captain. A. Piht was rescued and after the 2/10-94 he disappeared and was explained dead in the accident.

  • The drawing and the suitcase
A clue for what they searched for is the word drawing that is mentioned by the diver when he investigates the first suitcase they find. The diver was searching for something important and broke doors and moved bodies. It seemed more important to find this something than to investigate the complete hull, that is not yet done.
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So it would seem the bag that was strapped to someone's wrist was an unidentified passenger.
 
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