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Sustainable Fuels

rjh01 said:
The fuel for EVs can come from solar cells. Then batteries can be recharged during the day and swapped for the dead batteries from the trucks.
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... maybe I missed something here, but the batteries in a Cybertruck weigh 3/4 of a ton, and are underneath the vehicle. You think this is something you could just 'switch out' willy-nilly, maybe a couple times a day?
 
That's a cyber truck.

An articulated loader, crane or excavator could use that battery as a counterweight.
It could be possible to lift one off and replace it in 15 minutes.
Probably on an already manufactured chassis.
I used to drive an old forklift with a huge 72vdc battery under the seat. That battery took about five minutes to change in the parking lot.
Took longer to fuel up with diesel on any other machine.
 
8enotto said:
That's a cyber truck.
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Right. A small, low power vehicle with unimpressive range. Rural trucks would need considerably larger arrays to be practical.
8enotto said:
An articulated loader, crane or excavator could use that battery as a counterweight.
It could be possible to lift one off and replace it in 15 minutes.
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Now we need a battery powered crane or battery excavator at every location?
8enotto said:
Probably on an already manufactured chassis.
I used to drive an old forklift with a huge 72vdc battery under the seat. That battery took about five minutes to change in the parking lot.
Took longer to fuel up with diesel on any other machine.
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Right. An under the seat battery is negligible for the kind of power we are talking about to power heavy duty trucks in areas so rural that we are talking about using solar to fuel them.
 
Here are the facts.

1.Electric motors are more efficient than internal combustion engines.
2. Electric motors can propel almost anything faster than internal combustion engines.
3. Electric motors are more powerful than internal combustion engines.

Internal combustion engines are likely to claim only niche markets eventually. But its days as the dominant vehicle engine are numbered. And I'm guessing that it will replace most people's mowers and string trimmers too.

Batteries will continue to get better and cheaper and that will make Internal combustion engines not the best option for most applications.

It's only a matter of time. I'd bet every dollar I have that in 2035 EVs will own at least 50% of the new car market.
 
Really heavy equipment, trains and really big construction equipment for example, tend to be hybrid.

Diesel generators powering electric motors.

Sustainable fuels for that kind of equipment will be an important part of our future I think.
 
Thermal said:
Right. A small, low power vehicle with unimpressive range. Rural trucks would need considerably larger arrays to be practical.

Now we need a battery powered crane or battery excavator at every location?

Right. An under the seat battery is negligible for the kind of power we are talking about to power heavy duty trucks in areas so rural that we are talking about using solar to fuel them.
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On the old forklift point: only that it wasn't difficult to change the battery. Nothing more. Did I write anything more than that about it?

The electric powered heavy equipment could replace diesel units. It's only a future possibility.

They need not be any particular size, rather the size deemed usable on site. They could by hybrid too. Depends on what becomes desirable in that market.
 
8enotto said:
On the old forklift point: only that it wasn't difficult to change the battery. Nothing more. Did I write anything more than that about it?
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No. But then I don't understand the relevance? We could also say it's easy to switch out a car battery, too. Or the batteries in the TV remote.

The poster suggested switching out thousands of pounds of battery arrays like it was nothing. I questioned if that was realistic.
8enotto said:
The electric powered heavy equipment could replace diesel units. It's only a future possibility.

They need not be any particular size, rather the size deemed usable on site. They could by hybrid too. Depends on what becomes desirable in that market.
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There are lots of possibilities. I don't think the one suggested was one of them.
 
Japan and china (and probably others) have drive through battery changeout stations.
Instead of recharging on a trip, just swap out the low charge battery for a fully charged one.
It require retail and commercial cooperation of course, but it will be interesting to see if it is a financially sustainable system.
Recharging is still cheaper, but some people will pay for the convenience, and perhaps that demand might be key to network expansion.
An YouTube frinstance on the Chinese Nio system.
 
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novaphile said:
Really heavy equipment, trains and really big construction equipment for example, tend to be hybrid.

Diesel generators powering electric motors.
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I wouldn't describe them as hybrids. They are electric. Most freight trains in the US are diesel electric. In Europe, the vast majority of freight and passenger trains are fully electric.getting their electricity from overhead wires.
novaphile said:
Sustainable fuels for that kind of equipment will be an important part of our future I think.
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Unless the sustainable fuels are price competitive, no.
 
jeremyp said:
Why is it that most governments that are keen on transitioning to electric vehicles find it necessary to subsidise the purchase of electric vehicles in one way or another?
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Because we're at the tail end of the "early adopter" phase and there are both economic and attitudinal issues to overcome.

Many EVs are currently more expensive to buy than their ICE counterparts largely due to the expense of the battery array. I did however read that one manufacturer (it may have been Renault) were marketing their EV at a few pounds less than the ICE equivalent, so maybe that corner has been turned. EVs are considerably cheaper to run than ICE vehicles but it's the initial purchase price that people are focusing on at the moment*.

As far as attitudinal issues go, it's going to take time and familiarity before most people realise that EVs are a perfectly practical replacement for ICE for almost all people under almost all circumstances and that concerns over range, recharging and so forth are easily fixable.

* - 25 years ago I used to keep track of how much it used to cost to run my Mercedes C200 because most of its 40,000 - 50,000 annual mileage was expensed and IIRC I was receiving 45p a mile for the first 10,000 miles and 15p thereafter. The breakdown was roughly 12p/mile in fuel, 10p/mile in depreciation and 5p/mile in servicing and sundries (replacement tyres, bits and pieces, fluids whatever). Our experience with an EV is that the fuel cost would have been around 1.5p a mile in fuel at 2000s prices (about 2.5p at current prices) if we charged up overnight and paid for the electricity rather than getting it from the PV, servicing is around 2p/mile and I'm guessing that depreciation would be roughly equivalent for an ICE and EV. On that basis an EV covering that mileage would be £4,000 - £6,000 a year cheaper to run but that's an extreme use case.
 
I only do a couple of thousand miles a year, my 14 year old Honda Jazz (bought second hand 12 years ago, I've never owned a new car) only has about 40,000 miles on the clock. I'd like an EV, and could afford to buy one, but I'm pretty sure it would be better for the environment if I continue to run the Jazz until it conks out before replacing it with one.
 
I have been very surprised by the magnitude of the temperature effects on my own solar panels. On a warm, cloudless day, and I'm talking mid-20s C here, they generate well under 7 kw at midday. On a cold day, and I'm talking mid-teens, I can see 8.5 kw when the sun comes out, before the panels heat up.
 
Rolfe said:
I have been very surprised by the magnitude of the temperature effects on my own solar panels. On a warm, cloudless day, and I'm talking mid-20s C here, they generate well under 7 kw at midday. On a cold day, and I'm talking mid-teens, I can see 8.5 kw when the sun comes out, before the panels heat up.
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That's very interesting indeed.
 
Pixel42 said:
I only do a couple of thousand miles a year, my 14 year old Honda Jazz (bought second hand 12 years ago, I've never owned a new car) only has about 40,000 miles on the clock. I'd like an EV, and could afford to buy one, but I'm pretty sure it would be better for the environment if I continue to run the Jazz until it conks out before replacing it with one.
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Yes and no. The best thing for the environment would be to scrap it now and replace it with an EV. You could certainly afford to buy one, there are some fantastic second hand bargains around at the moment.

However, simply selling the Jazz on to continue its life of pollution under a new owner wouldn't help the environment one tiny little bit. The only reason to get an EV in that case would be because they drive so much better than ICE cars and cost buttons to run and maintain.
 
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