General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

Planigale said:
You do realise killing a patient in a hospital bed is explicitly a war crime.
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From what I'm reading, he was NOT killed.
He was targeted at the hospital (based on intelligence/informers), but he might have been just hiding there with the other HAMAS guys and their good buddies the 'journalists' who were doing HAMAS bidding.
That photo on X was taken of him in the recovery ward AFTER two tank rounds slammed into the building and he suffered serious injuries.
My post indicating he was a patient in a bed there at the time isn't accurate, apparently. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused, planigale.

So, was it legitimate to target him? Do you retract the 'war crimes' accusation against Israel and switch it to 'war crimes' by HAMAS for utilizing the hospital as a safe haven for active operatives and local journalists who were serving their interests? (From some indications, he was a member of HAMAS' so-called “Media Platoon”.)

Because that's more and more what it looks like happened here.
(I figured as much from the get-go, but the amount of details that are trickling out seem to support my guess)

As for the claim that Abu Mostafa was an intended target, none of the mainstream media are even looking into this. Go ahead, google it, there's nothing. Just that posting on X from GAZAWOOD account.

Media watchdog says it was just ‘raising questions’ with insinuations about photographers and Hamas | The Associated Press

The executive director of an Israeli media watchdog organization says it was simply “raising questions” by publicly wondering whether
www.ap.org www.ap.org

Reuters used pictures credited to Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa (a local Gaza freelancer) who had crossed into Israel on 10-7 along with HAMAS terrorists, and offered Reuters his images of the attacks.

HonestReporting did some more checking, and discovered that this scum had been wounded last May in a strike on the same hospital that targeted and killed his colleague Hassan Eslaiah!

This whole issue of 'journalists' in the service of HAMAS is a very important story, and it's being ignored.
 
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webfusion said:
From what I'm reading, he was NOT killed.
He was targeted at the hospital (based on intelligence/informers), but he might have been just hiding there with the other HAMAS guys and their good buddies the 'journalists' who were doing HAMAS bidding.
That photo on X was taken of him in the recovery ward AFTER two tank rounds slammed into the building and he suffered serious injuries.
My post indicating he was a patient in a bed there at the time isn't accurate, apparently. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused, planigale.

So, was it legitimate to target him? Do you retract the 'war crimes' accusation against Israel and switch it to 'war crimes' by HAMAS for utilizing the hospital as a safe haven for active operatives and local journalists who were serving their interests? (From some indications, he was a member of HAMAS' so-called “Media Platoon”.)

Because that's more and more what it looks like happened here.
(I figured as much from the get-go, but the amount of details that are trickling out seem to support my guess)

As for the claim that Abu Mostafa was an intended target, none of the mainstream media are even looking into this. Go ahead, google it, there's nothing. Just that posting on X from GAZAWOOD account.

Media watchdog says it was just ‘raising questions’ with insinuations about photographers and Hamas | The Associated Press

The executive director of an Israeli media watchdog organization says it was simply “raising questions” by publicly wondering whether
www.ap.org www.ap.org

Reuters used pictures credited to Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa (a local Gaza freelancer) who had crossed into Israel on 10-7 along with HAMAS terrorists, and offered Reuters his images of the attacks.

HonestReporting did some more checking, and discovered that this scum had been wounded last May in a strike on the same hospital that targeted and killed his colleague Hassan Eslaiah!

This whole issue of 'journalists' in the service of HAMAS is a very important story, and it's being ignored.
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So you are claiming your posts are inaccurate; I'll agree.

Intent to kill is still a crime.

Unless he was imminently targeting IDF combatants then there is no grounds for an attack on a hospital under IHL. It remains a war crime. For it not to be a war crime IDF would have to give a prior warning allowing whatever alleged breach to cease, unless there was an immediate risk to life of IDF forces. Merely being present in a hospital is not a war crime whether as a patient, worker or visitor.

I do not retract the statement that the IDF committed a war crime in attacking a hospital repeatedly.

I am prepared to accept your claim that illegal entry into Israel is a capital offence so serious that an alleged perpetrator can be subject to extra-judicial execution. (Even trump hasn't gone that far!). I note your claim that his particular crime was being a journalist. I think we can all believe that being a Palestinian journalist is viewed as a crime akin to terrorism by the Israeli authorities and subject to extra-judicial execution. Even when the journalist concerned is a US citizen.
 
arthwollipot said:
The most authoritative of sources.
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For years, Twitter (x) has been a source of record for many things. Same with Instagram. In some cases, even YouTube.

I wish for Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa to have a fast and complete recovery from his current injuries, so that he's able to leave the hospital bed and gets to meet those 72 virgins in the near future.
 
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Sometimes, even the TONIGHT SHOW with Jimmy Fallon is a 'primary source' of information, depending on the questions and answers of the guests. He asks about things that were never before revealed in other venues, and it becomes a scoop! Johnny Carson and Jay Leno often had guests tell the audience things that were unknown previously.
Hell, for that matter, Jon Stewart is also in that lane, even though it's a ComedyCentral production (and played for laughs). He's had many interviews that produce information previously unknown to the public.
Is Jon Stewart a Journalist? Yes/ No? Maybe?

X (and TruthSocial, in that respect) present information unfiltered.
AI is coming along like a freight train, sports fans. Get ready for a world that has to be fact-checked on everything because AI cannot be 'trusted' fully (although at this stage, it's pretty damn good for many things!)
"CHATGPT can make mistakes" -- standard disclaimer!

Mohammed Fayq Abu Mostafa was NOT an objective journalist, he was an active propaganda generator (filming alongside HAMAS guys killing Jews, and probably enjoying the scene) while actively encouraging Gazans to breach the border and join the attack.

The whole subject about these partisan journalists in Gaza just stinks to high heaven.
 
The IDF report about the Nasser Hospital attack was released, and it provides essentially the information I've already noted:
HAMAS is deploying local journalists as their proxies to inflame the world against Israel, and considers them to be part of their "Media Platoon" (and in some cases, literally being card-carrying members of HAMAS).
They will continue to be hunted down and neutralized by a professional military force with plenty of capabilities to track 'em down. :ninja:
Laugh at THAT, whydon'cha!

+++++++++++++++++++

The US administration is demanding the entire 50 hostages be released THIS WEEK, end of discussion.
The only thing left to negotiate with HAMAS is how many prisoners (and who) will be released in exchange.
My best guess, without any further information, might be in the range of 5000 or more, including the bodies Israel holds in morgue refrigerators and "numbers graveyards" (no names, just assigned numerical id's) and also all the 1500 (or more) bodies from Gaza that Israel recovered as they moved into various HAMAS command and control areas and tunnels with overwhelming deadly force. (as they are doing as I type this, and doing it very well.)

For all I know, Barghouti may get out, despite that being something Israel is loathe to happen.
(See: Sami Kuntar)

+++++++++++++++++++

Interesting meeting at the White House yesterday. You know who was present? Jared Kushner.
I have a feeling that he's back to pushing the Peace To Prosperity Program, taking it out of the drawer, tweaking it a bit, and placing that in front of the Palestinians for The Day After...

"THIS is journalism" --- Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, thank you for this objective and vitally important report.
www.ynetnews.com

Extraordinary aerial images show Gaza in ruins after nearly two years of war

Palestinian American writer and Hamas critic joins UAE mission to drop food into enclave, filming vast destruction after 22 months of war; UN says 70% of Gaza’s buildings have been damaged or destroyed
www.ynetnews.com www.ynetnews.com
 
If such a formidable and trained terrorist group like ISIS could be removed from Mosul and the city rebuilt (still early days I know), there is hope for Gaza. But Hamas has to be eliminated. They will not surrender, nor will they be allowed to stay and rebuild, and these two things should be obvious to all.

So how is it to be done? I don’t see many, if any, suggestions from critics of Israel. Hamas will not make any serious moves to withdraw, and it is clear they have no regard for Palestinian civilians.

And I don’t want to hear anything about what not to do, but what to do to resolve this problem. If it’s a serious diplomatic solution you have in mind, spell it out.
 
You are very resistant to new information.

Hamas is perfectly willingly to go, it just wants peace and a process to give the Gazans a new government (without it) that has the means to provide self determination and is not just a puppet government as in the West Bank that assists Israeli terrorists to rob and kill its citizens.

I don't think that's to much to wish for the people of Gaza
 
The Great Zaganza said:
You are very resistant to new information.

Hamas is perfectly willingly to go, it just wants peace and a process to give the Gazans a new government (without it) that has the means to provide self determination and is not just a puppet government as in the West Bank that assists Israeli terrorists to rob and kill its citizens.

I don't think that's to much to wish for the people of Gaza
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You have to be joking. Hamas has no interest in peace, and are showing no signs of simply exiting. That’s your new information? Quite sad.
 
Again, you refuse to accept what has been widely reported.

But what is Your alternative?
Kill every Palestinian?
What is your number of civilian deaths at which you think Israel has to accept that Hamas will stay in power?
100,000?
A million?
Are the lives of all remaining hostage worth sacrificing for the removal of Hamas?
 
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The Great Zaganza said:
Again, you refuse to accept what has been widely reported.

But what is Your alternative?
Kill every Palestinian?
What is your number of civilian deaths at which you think Israel has to accept that Hamas will stay in power?
100,000?
A million?
Are the lives of all remaining hostage worth sacrificing for the removal of Hamas?
Click to expand...
My solution from day one was for Hamas to surrender. That remains my solution.

Israel knows that Hamas cannot remain, just as Iraq knew that ISIS had to be neutralised for there to be peace in Mosul. And it is working.

You seem to accept that Hamas could have a place in Gaza. Why?
 
lionking said:
My solution from day one was for Hamas to surrender. That remains my solution.

Israel knows that Hamas cannot remain, just as Iraq knew that ISIS had to be neutralised for there to be peace in Mosul. And it is working.

You seem to accept that Hamas could have a place in Gaza. Why?
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you are ignoring the question:
how many deaths are acceptable to you if hamas does not surrender in a manner of your liking?

Israel for almost 2 years has clamed that removing Hamas will happen quickly, but after every new territory occupied it claimed it needed to take more, bomb more, kill more. Every leader on every list has been killed, but that doesn't count as removing Hamas. To this day, Israel refuses to say what it would even mean for Hamas to surrender - and so have you.

So if there is no scenario in which Hamas is gone, either because it refuses or because Israel refuses to accept their form of surrender, the question remains the same as it has been from the start:

what level of killing is acceptable before You and Israel will reverse their instance on something unverifiable?

I guess you have answered: no amount of dead hostages or Palestinians is too much for you - it certainly isn't for the Israeli government.
 
"Are the lives of all remaining hostages worth sacrificing for the removal of Hamas?"
That is always a question in relation to getting hostages freed without paying the ransom.
First of all, we're talking about probably 20 individuals being still alive, at best.
(without any indications from HAMAS that they are alive, or their condition).

OK, so there are Israelis who say that going into Gaza City would place their lives in danger, so don't go in.
Obviously, even Gen.Zamir understands that his given mission (taking Gaza City) is likely to result in hostages being executed as IDF narrows in on their rescue. He has had arguments with the politicians about it.

www.jpost.com

IDF: Gaza ceasefire does not apply to Gaza City | The Jerusalem Post

The special localized ceasefires will still apply to the al-Muwasi area and certain zones in central and southern Gaza.
www.jpost.com www.jpost.com
 
"Every leader on every list has been killed..." -- another spurious claim by TGZ.
That is obviously not the case, because less than 72 hours ago, Asswad (excellent name, btw!) was located and eliminated. --- Primary source: X
https://twitter.com/x/status/1960610371414229327

And speaking of locating and targeting senior leaders of terrorist organizations (a task that Mossad, ShinBet and IDF are doing so incredibly well in accomplishing) ---- Yemen's jihadists just were delivered a wake-up call.

Prime Minister Ahmed al-Rahawi is no longer among the breathing.
Well, well, well, how's that "Let's Keep Attacking Israeli Civilians" thing working out for these jokers?
 
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webfusion said:
"Every leader on every list has been killed..." -- another spurious claim by TGZ.
That is obviously not the case, because less than 72 hours ago, Asswad (excellent name, btw!) was located and eliminated. --- Primary source: X
https://twitter.com/x/status/1960610371414229327

And speaking of locating and targeting senior leaders of terrorist organizations (a task that Mossad, ShinBet and IDF are doing so incredibly well in accomplishing) ---- Yemen's jihadists just were delivered a wake-up call.

Prime Minister Ahmed al-Rahawi is no longer among the breathing.
Well, well, well, how's that "Let's Keep Attacking Israeli Civilians" thing working out for these jokers?
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Now that Prime Ministers are totally fair game hopefully Netanyahu will be next. Would be a great day for Israel and the world.
 
In Lebanon, two things just occurred that are quite dramatic alterations to the 'status quo' ----
One, those paper-tigers at UNIFIL are being disbanded.
Two, Palestinian militia groups are being disarmed.

I'm here to tell everyone, from the bottom of my heart, if both Syria and Lebanon manage to jump into the Abraham Accords it will be the best thing ever to happen for Palestinians.

And that nasty dictator in Turkey better be careful, and not cross any red lines.
He's not immune from anything that might happen to him, out of the blue!
 
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