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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

Andy_Ross said:
How does the submarine sinking it fit with with explosives sinking it?

You didn't answer the question.
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That was to do with the hole found in the side by those two Swedish filmmakers because that hole had not been mentioned in the original JAIC report. Knowing the parameters of that split in the hull and the estimated knots being travelled, experts were able to hypothesise what might have caused it.
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
You were astounded that anyone would suggest welding might involve melting steel. It went downhill from there. You insisted that even if it did involve melting, this could only be achieved in a laboratory because you misunderstood what the professor said.

Have you forgotten you did all of that?
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We were talking about distinctive deformation in metal caused by a high explosive (=high temperatures). Ida [name_?] is an expert in Metallurgy. I like how people here just assume they know better than her.
 
How do "explosives", fixed to the ship near the bow doors so firmly that they didn't detach during the sinking, just disappear when someone went back to look again? Vanishing as if they were actually some piece of random debris like a cardboard box instead of a super secret magnetic limpet mine?

Mysterious.
 
Vixen said:
We were talking about distinctive deformation in metal caused by a high explosive (=high temperatures). Ida [name_?] is an expert in Metallurgy. I like how people here just assume they know better than her.
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Asked and answered.

You are not qualified to determine whether your critics here are competent to understand and interpret the expert findings. Many of us, however, are competent to determine whether your interpretation of the expert findings is correct. The finding of "high temperatures" is consistent with ordinary welding. The conclusion that the high temperatures were caused by a high explosive was not attributable to the expert, but to someone else. The expert explicitly disavowed the explosive theory when asked.
 
Vixen said:
We were talking about distinctive deformation in metal caused by a high explosive (=high temperatures). Ida [name_?] is an expert in Metallurgy. I like how people here just assume they know better than her.
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No, that was just a different thing we once talked about.

We don't need to know metallurgy better than the professor does. We just need to read her report with more care than you do. The professor's findings would be explained by the heating of the parts when they were re-welded. Which we already knew did happen.

Have you forgotten that? Clearly you have a very selective memory.
 
Andy_Ross said:
How do explosives blowing the bow door off and sinking the ship fit in with the bow door being opened to push out lorries full of contraband Russian equipment and/or nuclear waste?
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See the claims of the Finnish guy who worked on the sonar printouts. He says he saw squares on the sonar that would fit with trucks.
 
Vixen said:
See the claims of the Finnish guy who worked on the sonar printouts. He says he saw squares on the sonar that would fit with trucks.
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The vehicles loaded from the stern in Tallinn. Your fantasy "military trucks" which were allegedly loaded last would not have been anywhere near the bow door.

Do you remember that bit?
 
Jack by the hedge said:
No, that was just a different thing we once talked about.

We don't need to know metallurgy better than the professor does. We just need to read her report with more care than you do. The professor's findings would be explained by the heating of the parts when they were re-welded. Which we already knew did happen.

Have you forgotten that? Clearly you have a very selective memory.
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In which way? Is this a new thinly veiled insult?
 
You leapt on every daft contradictory rumour and championed it for page after page. That was you. Nobody else here. Just you.

Were you somehow unaware you were doing that?
 
Vixen said:
Sweden did disappear two guys. One of them received citizenship and damages in compensation for his ordeal. At the time, although the Cold War was over, Sweden and the USA were great allies (it is a pity there is now a traitor in the White House) but Clinton wanted those two guys renditioned so the Swedes acquiesed to the foreign power.
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And you still clearly don't know the difference between deportation (which is what happened to these two men) and renditioning/"disappearance" (which did not happen to these two men). For goodness' sake, take the trouble to educate yourself before writing bollocks like this.
 
Here_to_learn said:
Yes, he also said (my translation): "But someone has obviously spent a lot of time writing the document and it is difficult to understand why it would be done and what the purpose would be if it is pure fabrication, says Lars Borgnäs."
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This thread contains a lot of evidence in favor of the great lengths some people go to in order to prop up a desired conspiracy theory.
 
Vixen said:
This isn't based on tv clips. It was commonly held that the PM's of Sweden, Finland and Estonia were flying over to Turku TYKS hospital to chat to the survivors, of which Piht was supposedly a key one, together with security police from SAPO and SUPO given the possible sabotage by a foreign power. They then flew to Helsinki and Piht was said to have flown with them. Piht was reported as having been seen in Helsinki and no more was heard from him again. In the interim Interpol put out an international arrest warrant. If a hostile foreign power sabotaged the removal by Sweden allied with the USA of former Soviet equipment and materiel from Estonia, then one can see this would quickly become classified information, especially as Sweden had to admit having done this on a passenger ferry before.
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Oh my good lord. What a load of old nonsense.
 
LondonJohn said:
And you still clearly don't know the difference between deportation (which is what happened to these two men) and renditioning/"disappearance" (which did not happen to these two men). For goodness' sake, take the trouble to educate yourself before writing bollocks like this.
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Yes, it did. It is official because Sweden admitted to it.
 
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