Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Stacyhs]

If it is so harmless, why did that person from WSU ring up Perugia Police to report it? .

It's common for people to re-interpret an event or what someone said after a crime. Something they previously thought quite unimportant suddenly becomes nefarious. For example, only AFTER her arrest was Knox's not attending the vigil for Meredith seen as evidence of her being heartless and uncaring.

Why would Knox go to the lengths of playing it down, wen she was made to apologise to her victim? Not such a 'harmless prank' after all, given the context of Mez being mercilessly hazed by her attackers.

Once again, you have absolutely ZERO proof that Knox was "MADE to apologize" so please stop repeating it.
Meredith was not 'hazed'. You've used that before in the same manner and were corrected then.

Hazing is:​

Any activity expected of someone joining a group (or to maintain full status in a group) that humiliates, degrades, or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate.

 

[Stacyhs]

They were not exonerated, they were acquitted due to 'insufficient evidence'. It's rather like the OJ Simpson case. Imagine if he'd brought out a tv series depicting himself as the Pope going around blessing people.

Once again, you simply ignore anything you don't like. This has been quoted and cited for you before but you know more about Italian law than an Italian law site just as you know more about EU Civil Rights law than the ECHR.

In conclusion: the acquittal for not having committed the fact completely exonerates the accused, who has nothing to do with the crime being tried.
https://www.laleggepertutti.it/633155_assoluzione-per-non-aver-commesso-il-fatto-come-funziona
Precisely because this type of absolution enshrines the total innocence of the accused from all guilt, it is said that it falls within the hypothesis of "absolution with full formula". "

 

[Stacyhs]

Acquitted but everybody knows the facts of the matter.

The "everybody knows" argument. Really? That's all you've got?

 

[Stacyhs]

I wrote "The ECHR ruled her 6 Nov memoriale was a retraction."

Perhaps you can point out to me where in that statement I suggested the ECHR issued a criminal verdict?

You claimed she didn't retract her interrogation statement. The ECHR reviewed her memoriale written on 6 Nov and determined it WAS a retraction. You know that was their conclusion as well as we do, so why lie about it?

Force of habit.

 

[Stacyhs]

There is a colloquial meaning of a word and a legal meaning.

Following the "everybody knows" defense we now have the "colloquial vs. legal meaning of a word" defense.
So tell us what the colloquial meaning of "criminal verdict" is vs the legal meaning of "criminal verdict".

At the criminal trial it was found for all the purple prose used by AK it was a proven clear fact she did with criminal intent point the investigation at Lumumba. IOW it was not an accident or due to confusion nor was it disguised by flowery language. If anything AK underlined her criminal claim by actually writing, I stand by what I said. The ECHR does not have the remit to declare her not guilty of criminal calunnia, nor of anything else.

How conveniently you leave out the rest of that sentence:

And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me than what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house.

One would almost suspect that type of dishonesty was intentional. But you wouldn't do that, would you?

 

[Stacyhs]

What rubbish. The unemployed get unemployment support.

But did Guede meet the requirements for a legal resident to receive them?

Legal residents in Italy can receive unemployment benefits, such as the NASpI, by applying through the INPS website within 68 days of losing their job. Eligibility requires being legally resident in Italy, being involuntarily unemployed, and having met minimum contribution requirements, which typically involve having paid at least 13 weeks of social security contributions in the four years prior to unemployment and completing 30 days of work in the preceding 12 months.

The last job Guede held was with the Caporali family business but he QUIT that job in late July. Between then and the murder he does only odd jobs here and there.

Are you seriously claiming the unemployed are motivated to go out burgling? That is some desperate logic there. A criminal life style is largely a choice. The vast majority of unemployed people are just as honest and law-abiding as anyone else.

An example of "desperate logic" is your inferring any such thing was said about the unemployed in general. But, per usual, you ignore that Guede was caught with a glass breaking tool, a stolen knife, and stolen items. His criminal life style was absolutely his choice as he repeatedly lied to his foster family, lied to his friends, kept quitting jobs. Add to that his conviction for murder and yet another upcoming trial for rape and other violence against his girlfriend and I'd say, yes....his criminal life style has been his choice.

Knox was given a ticket for anti-social behaviour, letting her guests cause great distress to the neighbours, with people throwing rocks at passing cars.

If having ONE loud going away party is an indication of 'anti-social behavior' then our high schools, colleges, and neighborhoods are chock full of anti-social miscreants!

"Great distress"....yeah...they were in such distress they told the police to not contact them. And Knox had no knowledge of any rock-throwing outside by others.

I know Knox fans find this really amusing but that kind of behaviour is not only dangerous to motorists but shows a '◊◊◊◊ you' attitude by the person concerned.

What we find amusing in a rather pathetic way is you and others exaggerating this party into some kind of "Girl Gone Wild" incident. "The person concerned" was not Knox as she was not throwing rocks or even aware of others doing so.

Sollecito brags that he received a caution for possession of drugs. On another occasion, he brags he managed to conceal illegal drugs from the cops by clever deception.

'Brags' is yet more of your usual hyperbole. And I believe it was one occasion he mentioned, not two:

Your claim that AK and RS are nice people whilst Guede was a prolific burglar says a lot about your values.

Your constant need to demonize and post disinformation says a lot about yours.

 

[Numbers]

Once again, you simply ignore anything you don't like. This has been quoted and cited for you before but you know more about Italian law than an Italian law site just as you know more about EU Civil Rights law than the ECHR.

Stacyhs, your post is excellent, but the ECHR case law and the Convention apply to all the 46 states of the Council of Europe. The European Union has 27 states, and all are members of the Council of Europe. There is a Court of Justice of the European Union in Luxembourg; it somewhat specializes in laws relating to EU treaties and agreements, and the EU has formally agreed that its court will follow the human rights case law and the European Convention on Human Rights that are the concern of the ECHR.

 

[Numbers]

Confirmation from her regarding the ECHR:

I suspect that her public announcement means that she and her lawyers have received an acknowledgement that the ECHR Central Office has received her new application, perhaps merely as a registered mail receipt, although the ECHR seems to provide an acknowledgement at some point after receipt. The ECHR writes in a pamphlet on the application process:

Your application will arrive at the Court’s Central Office, which receives about 1,500 letters every day. Because it receives so many letters, the Court cannot acknowledge receipt of your application immediately.

See: https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/d/echr/your_application_eng

 

[Vixen]

You've made the same allegation about Knox and Sollecito when asked why they would not only leave the bathmat but point it out to the police if it were his. You claimed they wanted to 'pull one over' on the police because they considered themselves smarter.

You've also suggested that AK and RS turning off their phones circa 8:45 indicates they did so to hide their whereabouts that night which they would only have done if planning to go to the cottage to harm Meredith.

See Jody Arias and Bryan Kohberger. They had the same bright idea.

 

[Vixen]

So now you need "overwhelming" evidence. Sworn depositions and the fact he was caught with several stolen items from at least two different places isn't sufficient. What next? There's no video showing him actually breaking in and stealing?


Once again, relying on the "not convicted" qualifier. As far as B&E, I do believe you pointed out earlier that


You just ignore the fact that the odds of bumping into some random guy in Milan trying to hawk stolen property from an office in Perugia a couple weeks before to Guede are astronomical.

No one needs to smear Guede. He's done a damn fine job of it all by himself. May I remind you that he's going to trial again for rape and beating up his girlfriend?

Oh, the irony!


For which you've provided absolutely no proof whatsoever. Typical.

Wrong again. Not that you'll admit it.


Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case (pp. 17-18). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.



She wasn't a minor unless you think 19 is a minor? She wrote the story in Dec. 2006 and posted in on MySpace Dec. 11, 2006.

This is why you are not considered credible.

Doesn't cancel out anything AK/RS did. It is a fact Guede has no convictions for burglary or breaking and entering. It is an established fact there was no burglary at via Pergola 7 that night.

 

[Vixen]

You mean like the glass breaking tool the Milan police found in Guede's backpack? I guess he needed that in case he was in a car accident and needed to break the glass to get out. Oh, wait...he never owned a car.

It doesn't matter. Police didn't think anything of it.

 

[Vixen]

Here we go again. When Paola Grande testified to hearing Luca tell Amanda and Raffaele in the car that Meredith's throat had been cut, was that also just a 'natural response' of 'backing up' her boyfriend up?
I guess we can add CT's girlfriend to your long list of people who lied under oath. Odd how it's only those who don't back your narrative who are so dishonest.

Whoo-oooosh! Points fly right over your head.

 

[Vixen]

"Hoax"? Donald? Is that you, Donald?


Hmmmm.... from Rita Ficarra's testimony:



Since you think this was all a PR hoax, was Ficarra playing along with it and lying under oath?
Then there's Chief of Police Arturo de Felice's press announcement declaring,

Did those "facts" they "knew were correct" include her meeting Lumumba and taking him to the cottage?



There's that psychic ability of yours again letting us know what Knox was really thinking!
Please explain to us, Madame Vixen, why Knox would have needed to delete either of those messages which turned out to be entirely innocent and unrelated to the crime? Would the police never have discovered she didn't go to work that night?


If you recall, Madame Vixen , she switched off her phone immediately after reading his text, the aim being not to be called into work if business suddenly picked up. That is what she testified to.



LOL! "Secret police doing their stuff"! LOL! The postales are far from being "secret police" and tracing a sim card number to its owner isn't exactly James Bond level "stuff"! I do get a kick out of your hyperbole sometimes!

Yeah, deleting a message telling her not to come to work and leaving her response is really top level criminal thinking!
"Hey, Raffie, I don't have to go to work tonight. What should we do? I KNOW! Let's go kill my roommate! "

Would could should. The claim the Italians have no idea what the English speaking world (and the French and the Spanish and the German*) mean, when they say,'See you later!" is one of the more hilarious PR myths. This point on the PR crib sheet is to claim that the thicko cops decided that saying 'See you later', was what made them wrongly suspect AK.

*...and even the Italian, when they say, Arrivederci!

 

[Vixen]

It's common for people to re-interpret an event or what someone said after a crime. Something they previously thought quite unimportant suddenly becomes nefarious. For example, only AFTER her arrest was Knox's not attending the vigil for Meredith seen as evidence of her being heartless and uncaring.

Once again, you have absolutely ZERO proof that Knox was "MADE to apologize" so please stop repeating it.
Meredith was not 'hazed'. You've used that before in the same manner and were corrected then.

That's not what the pathologists said.

 

[Vixen]

Following the "everybody knows" defense we now have the "colloquial vs. legal meaning of a word" defense.
So tell us what the colloquial meaning of "criminal verdict" is vs the legal meaning of "criminal verdict".

How conveniently you leave out the rest of that sentence:

One would almost suspect that type of dishonesty was intentional. But you wouldn't do that, would you?

If you do a search you can find exactly the reasons why the courts found AK guilty of criminal calunnia, as I have now quoted it more than once.

 

[Vixen]

The last job Guede held was with the Caporali family business but he QUIT that job in late July. Between then and the murder he does only odd jobs here and there.

An example of "desperate logic" is your inferring any such thing was said about the unemployed in general. But, per usual, you ignore that Guede was caught with a glass breaking tool, a stolen knife, and stolen items. His criminal life style was absolutely his choice as he repeatedly lied to his foster family, lied to his friends, kept quitting jobs. Add to that his conviction for murder and yet another upcoming trial for rape and other violence against his girlfriend and I'd say, yes....his criminal life style has been his choice.


If having ONE loud going away party is an indication of 'anti-social behavior' then our high schools, colleges, and neighborhoods are chock full of anti-social miscreants!

"Great distress"....yeah...they were in such distress they told the police to not contact them. And Knox had no knowledge of any rock-throwing outside by others.

What we find amusing in a rather pathetic way is you and others exaggerating this party into some kind of "Girl Gone Wild" incident. "The person concerned" was not Knox as she was not throwing rocks or even aware of others doing so.


'Brags' is yet more of your usual hyperbole. And I believe it was one occasion he mentioned, not two:

View attachment 63177
View attachment 63178


Your constant need to demonize and post disinformation says a lot about yours.

It is a fact Sollecito has a police caution for possession of drugs. As for your blatant lie and PR crib sheet no. 101 that Guede was a burglar, he has zero convictions for burglary and no convictions for breaking and entering either. As explained, he was convicted in retrospect of being in possession of a stolen laptop. The reason the latter is a completely separate offence to burglary and B&E is because they really don't ipso facto follow on from each other. Burglars, robbers and shoplifters do as a matter of well-known fact, pass on their stolen goods to fences who sell the stolen property informally in places such as pubs, craigslist and eBay, and around workplaces. Get rid of your fond unfounded beliefs.

 

[Vixen]

There you go again with the "no convictions" qualifier which is just a tactic to dismiss the fact that he WAS a thief. He STOLE the knife from the school kitchen and his own friend said he took things out of girls' purses. You'll never admit that he STOLE the laptop and phone from the lawyers' office which is why you ignore the highly improbable coincidence that he just happened to run into some random guy at the MILAN train station on Oct 26 who sold him the items stolen in PERUGIA on Oct. 13/14.

As for the rest of your post, it's just your typical smearing of anyone who doesn't support your narrative of Knox being a killer.

The lawyer of the said office himself said the break in at his offfice was an inside job in his opinion. Oh but some 'friend of Amelie Knox' knows better. PR cribsheet #102: of all the people who live in Perugia, it must have been Rudy Guede who burgled the solicitors office because it helps the fake story of a burglary at via Pergola 7.

 

[Vixen]

What you so conveniently leave out is that Guede wasn't just a lazy lay-about. He had a long history of being a LIAR to the point that his own foster family kicked him out.
No one has said being unable to hold a job was proof of him being "a lone murderer/rapist" so that's yet another one of your dishonest misrepresentations.

What criminal record did AK and RS have in Nov. 2007? A noise violation does NOT give Knox a 'criminal record' any more than a parking ticket does. If RS had a "criminal record" then why was that never brought up in court? Why has no one...even over at TJMK... ever produced this alleged criminal record? This is why you have no credibility.

Er, Amelie is a convicted criminal liar. There remains no law against being unemployed or a 'lazy' lay-about.

 

[Vixen]

Once again:
How likely is it that Guede just happened to bump into some random guy in MILAN on Oct 26 who just happened to have items stolen in PERUGIA two weeks earlier? And what are the chances this random guy whom Guede did not claim to know would offer him these items? You won't answer that because you know the answer.


You think Guede was charged in Italy because of what Moore was saying in the US about Knox's interrogation?
That's just weird.

It couldn't possibly be because it was now on public record that he was in possession of stolen goods and Italian law requires he be prosecuted if enough evidence exists, could it?

It matters not a jot what you think. He was never charged with burglary. The police are the professional investigators, not you. Yes, it was indeed decided to charge Guede in retrospect over the Milan nursery because of his arrest over the Kercher murder. Prior to that, the police had decided not to bring any charges.

 

[Vixen]

No, she wasn't "found in possession" (nice try), she HAD money that her bank records show she had withdrawn from her own account. What she had was the required cash to pay her own rent that was the same as Meredith's rent.

Knox's bank record activity in US dollars from Oct.1 to Nov 5/6 (days of the interrogation and arrest). Irrelevant international transaction/withdrawal fees which ranged from under $1 to $8 have been left out which is why the balance amount is slightly off. Knox typically withdrew €150 or €250 at a time. The notes in parentheses are Knox's own notes.
Action Balance
Oct 1: -355.75 [€250] $3,593.38 (Rent money)
Oct 3: -354.52 [€250] $3,235.31
Oct 4: +2,052.30 $5,284.07 (Grandmother)
Oct 15: -355.29 [€250] $4,912.78
Oct 23: -355.79 [€250] $4,549.89
Oct 29: -215.90 [€150] $4,333.99 (Trip to Assisi)
Nov 5: -361,54 [€250] $3,9790.30
Nov 5: +562.00 $4,528.69 (paycheck)
Nov 5: -62.18 [€42.92] $4465.89
Nov 11: -8.00 (fee) $4457.89

This is yet another prime example of you dishonestly spinning things to fit your narrative.

Knox had €215 on her which is less than the €250 in missing rent money from MK. Again, this was likely part of Amanda's own rent money.

The police didn't think it was 'likely' when they charged her with the theft.