Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Stacyhs]

I get that but it doesn't explain the prolonged torture and personalised victimisation. BKT is not a good analogy as his game plan was to outwit the police, leaving them silly cryptic 'clues'.

You've made the same allegation about Knox and Sollecito when asked why they would not only leave the bathmat but point it out to the police if it were his. You claimed they wanted to 'pull one over' on the police because they considered themselves smarter.

Plus, he was a serial killer, not an impromptu rapist/killer.

You've also suggested that AK and RS turning off their phones circa 8:45 indicates they did so to hide their whereabouts that night which they would only have done if planning to go to the cottage to harm Meredith.

 

[Stacyhs]

But unlike Knox, Guede was neither charged nor convicted of the theft of the phones, cash and cards.

But why was Knox even charged with the theft in the first place when there was no evidence of that AND it was Guede's DNA in Meredith's blood ON THE PURSE?

Additionally, by the time Knox was acquitted of the theft of the money and cards (because there was no evidence) in 2009, Guede had already been tried, convicted, and sentenced which would mean new charges would have to be filed against him on a much lesser charge. Do you really think they were going to waste time and money trying him again for that?

Your claim the police singled out Knox is your pathetic fantasy that police have nothing better to do than pick on some random person. She was charged because of strong probable cause., not because some cop didn't like the look of her.

Exactly WHAT "strong probable cause" did they have to charge Knox with stealing the money and wallet? Was her DNA on the purse? Was she broke? Was she unemployed? Did she have a history of theft? Oh, wait...that was Guede!

 

[Stacyhs]

Knox only referred to the 'prank' because someone had rung up Perugia Police to draw their attention to her past behaviour.

What plausible reason would she have for bringing up a college prank back in Washington that had no relevancy to Meredith's murder?
Whoever contacted the Perugia police was doing the same thing as you are: seeing something nefarious where it didn't exist.

Of course, she is going to make light of it. Freaking someone out was just a leetle April Fools joke, ha ha ha, not a reflection on a dark sadistic personality.

What a silly remark. And I'm only using "silly" because I can't use the word I'd like to.

 

[Numbers]

The following academic article may be useful in understanding the miscarriages of justice in the Knox - Sollecito case:

Amanda Knox Case Is a Lesson in Understanding the Italian Justice System​

By Leischen Kranick 04/02/2015
By Stephanie M. Hunziker, PhD, criminal justice faculty at American Military University

Amanda Knox Case Is a Lesson in Understanding the Italian Justice System

The nearly decade of courtroom drama involving Amanda Knox highlights the key differences between the American and Italian criminal justice systems.

apuedge.com

Excerpts:

Are you perplexed by the trials, appeals, acquittal, and, most recently, second {and final} acquittal {on the murder/rape charges} of American Amanda Knox in the Italian criminal justice system? You are not alone.
....
The Italian Justice System
Italy has traditionally had an inquisitorial system where courts are involved in investigations in addition to presiding over court proceedings. In layman’s terms, that means the prosecutor and judge work together in a fact-finding mission (Ogg, 2012). This is an important distinction because in Italy, the judge—who will be deciding a defendant’s guilt or innocence—often knows all of the evidence before the defense and defendant. The judge has likely made up his or her mind about how to proceed in the case before the trial even starts.

Any professional judge would likely be prejudiced after reading the full investigative report, especially if it implies the defendant’s guilt (Grand, 2000). Many scholars have noted that the judge’s decision-making process is likely affected by this process and judges may be inclined to side with the public official’s rendition of the case and evidence.

A move to make the Italian system more adversarial occurred in 1988 with the development of a new Italian code that attempted to replace the inquisitorial practice with one that created a fairer environment for the defendant (Grand, 2000). Under the new code, judges are to act as an unbiased reviewer of evidence and testimony and not help the prosecutor in the fact-finding mission. Many judges, who strongly valued their traditional role, likely considered this new approach as an effort to take away power. To this day, there is little evidence that a real transformation has occurred in Italian courts.

{The text provides a non-exclusive list of five significant differences between the US and Italian judicial systems}
....
While the March 28 annulment by Italy’s top court of Amanda Knox’s conviction {on the murder/rape charges} should settle the case once and for all, the nearly decade of courtroom drama demonstrates that Italy’s justice system could use a true overhaul.

 

[euroneighbour]

Confirmation from her regarding the ECHR:

 

[Stacyhs]

There were only superficial defensive wounds because someone was restraining her arms behind her back, as she was being strangled, stabbed repeatedly and had a hand over her mouth.

How does she get KNIFE CUTS on her hands if she's being restrained?

This is borne out by the pathologists notes documenting the type of wounds visible on the body at post-mortem. Large upward thrusting sawing stabs on one side of the throat and a lesser stab wound with a smaller-sized knife - and more superficial - than the fatal one.

That is NOT evidence of her being restrained with her hands behind her back. That it YOUR scenario.

Knox was charged and convicted of wielding the knife in the larger wound. The conviction was annulled due to mental gymnastics by Marasca-Bruno, thanks to political backchanneling and, shall we say, interference by Bongiono's well-known chums, who ride about in armoured vehicles for their own protection from other mobsters.

And here we go yet again..........Knox could only have been acquitted due to M-B, Hellmann, the defense lawyers, experts, witnesses being, shall we say, "bent" in some way.

 

[Stacyhs]

It's well-documented.

Then you can easily provide these "several stories about rape, put them on MySpace and wrote another story in Capanne" by providing a link?
I just looked through Knox's writings in the court records. Knox's MySpace stories are listed and the only one even mentioning rape is Baby Brother. And, as you've been told on many occasions, it's an ANTI-RAPE story.

 

[Welshman]

Then you can easily provide these "several stories about rape, put them on MySpace and wrote another story in Capanne" by providing a link?
I just looked through Knox's writings in the court records. Knox's MySpace stories are listed and the only one even mentioning rape is Baby Brother. And, as you've been told on many occasions, it's an ANTI-RAPE story.

Vixen has a history of making claims which can't be supported which indicates these claims are false. Why resort to making false claims if the case against Amanda and Raffaele was so solid and constantly repeat these falsehoods?

 

[Stacyhs]

Referring to someone integrated into Italian culture, language and society as a 'Black migrant'* and a 'cat burglar' when they have ZERO convictions for burglary or breaking and entering, is pure incitement to hatred.
Which is Nina Burleigh's aim. Forget the courts, let's just be racist.

There you go again with the "no convictions" qualifier which is just a tactic to dismiss the fact that he WAS a thief. He STOLE the knife from the school kitchen and his own friend said he took things out of girls' purses. You'll never admit that he STOLE the laptop and phone from the lawyers' office which is why you ignore the highly improbable coincidence that he just happened to run into some random guy at the MILAN train station on Oct 26 who sold him the items stolen in PERUGIA on Oct. 13/14.

As for the rest of your post, it's just your typical smearing of anyone who doesn't support your narrative of Knox being a killer.

 

[Stacyhs]

The point being made is, if Guede as a teenager was unemployed because he got sacked lying in bed and unable to get his arse into work, proves he was a lone murderer/rapist, then the past history of Knox and Sollecito also becomes fair game.

What you so conveniently leave out is that Guede wasn't just a lazy lay-about. He had a long history of being a LIAR to the point that his own foster family kicked him out.
No one has said being unable to hold a job was proof of him being "a lone murderer/rapist" so that's yet another one of your dishonest misrepresentations.

Unlike AK and RS, RG had no criminal record as of the time of the murder. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

What criminal record did AK and RS have in Nov. 2007? A noise violation does NOT give Knox a 'criminal record' any more than a parking ticket does. If RS had a "criminal record" then why was that never brought up in court? Why has no one...even over at TJMK... ever produced this alleged criminal record? This is why you have no credibility.

 

[Stacyhs]

No, a criminal act requires mens rea. Guede was not convicted of burglary, breaking and entrying but was convicted in hindsight of 'being in possession of stolen property', some weeks after his arrest for the murder,

Once again:
How likely is it that Guede just happened to bump into some random guy in MILAN on Oct 26 who just happened to have items stolen in PERUGIA two weeks earlier? And what are the chances this random guy whom Guede did not claim to know would offer him these items? You won't answer that because you know the answer.

thanks to lobbying by 'ex-FBI Steve Moore' doing the TV rounds falsely claiming AK was subjected to 'tag teams of twelve from Rome flying squad, all night long'.

You think Guede was charged in Italy because of what Moore was saying in the US about Knox's interrogation?
That's just weird.

It couldn't possibly be because it was now on public record that he was in possession of stolen goods and Italian law requires he be prosecuted if enough evidence exists, could it?

Italy is the only Western country where the principle of mandatory prosecution is enshrined at the constitutional law level (Newman, 2010; Sluiter et al., 2013; Ruggeri, 2018). Article 112 of the 1948 Italian Constitution, indeed, states that “the public prosecutor has the duty to initiate criminal proceedings”. This means that Italian public prosecutors have the obligation to commence a formal investigation every time that a notice of crime is brought to their attention and sufficient evidence exists.

 

[Stacyhs]

She was found in possession of cash roughly equivalent to Mez' rent money.

No, she wasn't "found in possession" (nice try), she HAD money that her bank records show she had withdrawn from her own account. What she had was the required cash to pay her own rent that was the same as Meredith's rent.

Knox's bank record activity in US dollars from Oct.1 to Nov 5/6 (days of the interrogation and arrest). Irrelevant international transaction/withdrawal fees which ranged from under $1 to $8 have been left out which is why the balance amount is slightly off. Knox typically withdrew €150 or €250 at a time. The notes in parentheses are Knox's own notes.
Action Balance
Oct 1: -355.75 [€250] $3,593.38 (Rent money)
Oct 3: -354.52 [€250] $3,235.31
Oct 4: +2,052.30 $5,284.07 (Grandmother)
Oct 15: -355.29 [€250] $4,912.78
Oct 23: -355.79 [€250] $4,549.89
Oct 29: -215.90 [€150] $4,333.99 (Trip to Assisi)
Nov 5: -361,54 [€250] $3,9790.30
Nov 5: +562.00 $4,528.69 (paycheck)
Nov 5: -62.18 [€42.92] $4465.89
Nov 11: -8.00 (fee) $4457.89

This is yet another prime example of you dishonestly spinning things to fit your narrative.

Knox had €215 on her which is less than the €250 in missing rent money from MK. Again, this was likely part of Amanda's own rent money.

 

[Welshman]

What you so conveniently leave out is that Guede wasn't just a lazy lay-about. He had a long history of being a LIAR to the point that his own foster family kicked him out.
No one has said being unable to hold a job was proof of him being "a lone murderer/rapist" so that's yet another one of your dishonest misrepresentations.

What criminal record did AK and RS have in Nov. 2007? A noise violation does NOT give Knox a 'criminal record' any more than a parking ticket does. If RS had a "criminal record" then why was that never brought up in court? Why has no one...even over at TJMK... ever produced this alleged criminal record? This is why you have no credibility.

It is important to bear in mind that the nutjobs at TJMK have an obsessive hatred of Amanda and Raffaele and have a Vendetta against them. If AK and RS had criminal records, you can bet your life TJMK would have used this against them. Vixen constantly bangs on about Amanda falsely accusing Lumumba but then makes false accusations AK and RS have criminal records. Why resort to false accusations if the case against Amanda and Raffaele was so solid?

 

[TruthCalls]

What you so conveniently leave out is that Guede wasn't just a lazy lay-about. He had a long history of being a LIAR to the point that his own foster family kicked him out.
No one has said being unable to hold a job was proof of him being "a lone murderer/rapist" so that's yet another one of your dishonest misrepresentations.

What criminal record did AK and RS have in Nov. 2007? A noise violation does NOT give Knox a 'criminal record' any more than a parking ticket does. If RS had a "criminal record" then why was that never brought up in court? Why has no one...even over at TJMK... ever produced this alleged criminal record? This is why you have no credibility.

Good luck on getting an answer to this one. I've already asked her twice... she just wobbles on down another path as if you never asked. She knows it's a lie, we caught her, but by her rules that means just move on without acknowledging the lie.

 

[Stacyhs]

There is something immoral in people profiting from their crime.

There is something immoral in people repeating disinformation and misinformation, especially after they've been quoted and cited evidence they're wrong.

 

[Stacyhs]

There is no overwhelming evidence Guede was the local burglar, as Knox and her fans like to claim

So now you need "overwhelming" evidence. Sworn depositions and the fact he was caught with several stolen items from at least two different places isn't sufficient. What next? There's no video showing him actually breaking in and stealing?

, to offset suspicion away from herself. Why? Because Guede has never been convicted of burglary nor of breaking and entering.

Once again, relying on the "not convicted" qualifier. As far as B&E, I do believe you pointed out earlier that

He might well have attained his stolen property laptop from some guy in Milan, not that RG is known for telling the truth.

You just ignore the fact that the odds of bumping into some random guy in Milan trying to hawk stolen property from an office in Perugia a couple weeks before to Guede are astronomical.

However, simply speculating RG was a burglar who must have been the real killer, really isn't the same as being tried in a criminal court of law. Knox fans smear Guede because they think it cancels out suspicion from AK and RS of the horrible crime against Mez.

No one needs to smear Guede. He's done a damn fine job of it all by himself. May I remind you that he's going to trial again for rape and beating up his girlfriend?

But truth cannot be cancelled out. A fact remains a fact no matter how much effort goes into hiding it.

Oh, the irony!

It wasn't one story it was several. She put them up on her MySpace page into the public domain and wrote yet another one whilst in Capanne. It's by her own account, so hardly my 'falsehood'.

For which you've provided absolutely no proof whatsoever. Typical.

As for the ridiculous claim by Stacyhs that it was a school class assignment to write about anti-rape, that is just something made up on the hoof to 'explain' it.

Wrong again. Not that you'll admit it.

When her creative writing teacher asked the class to write a dark short story about events ten minutes before the discovery of a body, Amanda’s had a deceptively cosy title: ‘Baby Brother’.

Follain, John. A Death in Italy: The Definitive Account of the Amanda Knox Case (pp. 17-18). St. Martin's Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

As if any English teacher instructs a class of minors to write a lurid composition about rape and violence.

She wasn't a minor unless you think 19 is a minor? She wrote the story in Dec. 2006 and posted in on MySpace Dec. 11, 2006.

This is why you are not considered credible.

 

[Stacyhs]

LondonJohn said:
The ECHR disagrees with you. Do you know better than the ECHR?

Certainly.

Of course you do. Big, strong men with tears in their eyes come up to you and say, "Vixen, you know more about European Union civil rights laws than anyone! Thanks for being here to correct the ECHR! How do you know so much about everything like the world has never seen before?

 

[Stacyhs]

There is also an offence of going 'equipped for burglary'; you can be done if police find you in possession of things such as a glass breaking hammer, crowbar, jemmy and what have you. In addition, if you can't produce the 'receipts' for goods in your possession you can be done for 'being in possession of stolen property'.

You mean like the glass breaking tool the Milan police found in Guede's backpack? I guess he needed that in case he was in a car accident and needed to break the glass to get out. Oh, wait...he never owned a car.

 

[Stacyhs]

The point being made is just because Taramontano's girlfriend backs him up means sweet Fanny Adams because the natural response would be, of course she would. It's really not the same as an arm's length independent witness backing you up. Rather like tax rules, fair market value is decided by what an independent arms-length third party would pay (or rather does pay) than what your friend, relative or SO would. That's the principle I was referring to here.

Here we go again. When Paola Grande testified to hearing Luca tell Amanda and Raffaele in the car that Meredith's throat had been cut, was that also just a 'natural response' of 'backing up' her boyfriend up?
I guess we can add CT's girlfriend to your long list of people who lied under oath. Odd how it's only those who don't back your narrative who are so dishonest.

 

[Stacyhs]

Ha, this 'see you later' is another Knox hoax,

"Hoax"? Donald? Is that you, Donald?

together with the 'Guede was a prolific local burglar' one. No, police didn't begin to suspect Knox over the 'see you later' crap, as no doubt her parents decided would be a great PR point for Gogerty-Marriott. The hoax goes something like this: the stupid Italians thought Knox was literally going to 'see you later' with somebody, which is why they decided she was a key suspect and started beating her about the head (plus, enter the tag teams of twelve from Rome all night long shouting REMEMBER! REMEMBER!).

Hmmmm.... from Rita Ficarra's testimony:

ANSWER – Yes. “Sure. See you later. Have a good evening.” It was the only one that evening, and we asked who
this Patrick was, and it seemed like a date. See you later, of course, in response to someone else.

QUESTION – What did the text message sent to Lumumba mean to you when you read it?
ANSWER – For us, it could have meant a date that evening, after the time the message was sent, which was around 8:30, because if he says sure, he replies to a message and says see you later, have a good evening.

Since you think this was all a PR hoax, was Ficarra playing along with it and lying under oath?
Then there's Chief of Police Arturo de Felice's press announcement declaring,

"Initially the American gave a version of events we knew was not correct. She buckled and made an admission of facts we knew were correct and from that we were able to bring them in. They all participated but had different roles."

Did those "facts" they "knew were correct" include her meeting Lumumba and taking him to the cottage?

The truth is, Knox deleted her message from Patrick not to come in and thought she had deleted her response.

There's that psychic ability of yours again letting us know what Knox was really thinking!
Please explain to us, Madame Vixen, why Knox would have needed to delete either of those messages which turned out to be entirely innocent and unrelated to the crime? Would the police never have discovered she didn't go to work that night?

If you recall, she switched off her phone within half an hour of Patrick's don't come in text, the aim being to hide her whereabouts that evening.

If you recall, Madame Vixen , she switched off her phone immediately after reading his text, the aim being not to be called into work if business suddenly picked up. That is what she testified to.

But the Italians have a lot of secret police doing their stuff (think about how quickly two plainclothed policemen turned up at the cottage with Mez' handed in discarded phone).

LOL! "Secret police doing their stuff"! LOL! The postales are far from being "secret police" and tracing a sim card number to its owner isn't exactly James Bond level "stuff"! I do get a kick out of your hyperbole sometimes!

The found Knox message which she had deleted.

Yeah, deleting a message telling her not to come to work and leaving her response is really top level criminal thinking!
"Hey, Raffie, I don't have to go to work tonight. What should we do? I KNOW! Let's go kill my roommate! "

When she realised they could place her in Plaza Grimana, her physiological reaction of shock and surprise told them, from past experience, was typical of a criminal caught out bang to rights. This is why she had to quickly dream up a story of why she was in Plaza Grimana and how she met up with Patrik there to take him to the cottage, etc. I mean, her folk were furious she was tricked into confessing, but it was all by Knox' own accord.