Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Ziggurat]

Ok. Passports are considered universally accurate identification, inasmuch as they are accepted worldwide for ID and entrance to another country.

When does admission to other countries ever depend on sex?

If a body needs to accept an ID without getting into dropping trou (or other variants), it should universally suffice.

Whether or not it "should", it very plainly doesn't. If you were a US citizen in 2024, you could get a passport with whatever sex you wanted listed, with no actual requirements to be that sex. So using your passport as a measure of sex is basically just self-ID, and that's VERY OBVIOUSLY a bad idea for sex segregated sports. And especially for boxing. There is no argument for doing that. You aren't even presenting an argument for doing that.

That it ended up being an imperfect system should hardly be a surprise; little is perfect and flaws abound.

It's not imperfect. It's actively bad.

More telling would be to identify who these puppetmaster TRAs exactly are, and demonstrate that ...the planet . . lives in submission to them, and why.

This is a weird dichotomy you're operating under, where either they're in total control or irrelevant. Why are you ignoring the obvious possibility that they have some influence?

As for why they have influence, do you not understand how special interests work?

Or, you know, their constituents that voted them into office?

Again, do you not understand how special interests work in politics? This isn't exactly the first time that a legislature passed a law that the majority of voters don't support.

 

[Ziggurat]

The link between childhood poverty and lifelong mental health problems is well documented. Intervening earlier when families and young people are struggling with all kinds of problems also pays dividends for mental health. Would it reduce all violence against women? No

OK then. So it's not a substitute for other methods for protecting women.

but I think it would it have far more of an effect than preventing transsexuals using the public toilets and changing rooms of their choice as well as numerous other benefits for society.

Even assuming that's true, since these things aren't mutually exclusive, it's still not a reason to not continue sex segregation in bathrooms.

Let's flip it around: Do you think increasing child poverty and economic inequality would lead to more, less or no change in the amount of violence against women?

Possibly less violence, but not no violence. But given that I don't think sex segregation in bathrooms is a cause of childhood poverty or economic inequality, why is this even relevant to this thread? It's not. Are you arguing that sex segregation in bathrooms causes childhood poverty or economic inequality?

 

[d4m10n]

Bottom line is that while "activists" may push for certain things, that doesn't mean The Powers That Be are submitting to them.

Why do you think the IOC (and those who followed their lead) opened up the female category to males in the first place, if not to appease the people saying that transwomen have a human right to compete therein?

 

[Thermal]

When does admission to other countries ever depend on sex?

It doesn't. It's an identification point.

Whether or not it "should", it very plainly doesn't.

Yes, I know. We all know. But they made a call on how to do so that was reasonable, without opening up a can of worms that they probably didnt want to open..

This is a weird dichotomy you're operating under, where either they're in total control or irrelevant. Why are you ignoring the obvious possibility that they have some influence?

Probably for the same reason y'all insist that the TRAs are Masters of the Universe and no one could possibly arrive at a decision without groveling at the TRAs feet.

Except that I don't all-or-nothing it.

As for why they have influence, do you not understand how special interests work?

I do. We all do. Special interests normally rely on some kind of power leverage. TRAs don't have any, that I can see, except that annoying anti discriminating laws thingy that they rely almost entirely on, which is all the Powers need to concern themselves with.

Ever notice that a special interest group like NAMBLA ain't directing public policy?

Again, do you not understand how special interests work in politics? This isn't exactly the first time that a legislature passed a law that the majority of voters don't support.

Again, I and everyone else understand. You, however, say they are the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Deep State.

So please, lay out your causal evidence. How does this small fraction with no money, power, or (according to you guys) public support direct the course of History?

 

[Ziggurat]

Yes, I know. We all know. But they made a call on how to do so that was reasonable

It wasn't reasonable, not even slightly. The rules allowed ordinary males with no DSD and undergoing no transition treatment to compete as women. The fact that you think it is reasonable is quite strange, given that IIRC you've previously said that males shouldn't compete in women's sports.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Ah yes, the "(actual)" women......
While I accept that the TERFs and transphobes might not like the image, and how it undermines there prejudices, all the women I've shown it too, cis and trans, were amused or appreciative.

Amused, sure. But I bet they're not amused for the reason you think they're amused.

I was amused that any male has the arrogance to assume that males make better females than males. I laughed at the image... but not in appreciation.

 

[Emily's Cat]

You've just come out with a (useless) tautology. I.e. a male brain is a brain in a male body.

It seems some people just can't get past the idea that gender does not have to correspond to biological sex, just that it usually does in the vast majority of cases. For you there is are vertical lines at either end of the distribution curve; you can't deny the existence of very butch lesbians and effeminate gay men, but past those points no human is allowed to exist because doing so would conflict with your model of the universe. I suggest that nature doesn't give a ◊◊◊◊ about our models and will just do whatever it does.

Mind body duality, where the divine soul has been replaced by the magical gender essence.

 

[Thermal]

It wasn't reasonable, not even slightly. The rules allowed ordinary males with no DSD and undergoing no transition treatment to compete as women. The fact that you think it is reasonable is quite strange, given that IIRC you've previously said that males shouldn't compete in women's sports.

I don't think it was a good idea. I think it was reasonable given their choices. But mostly, IDGAF.

You appeared to have accidentally snipped out the direct question that is far more interesting, though. How do these mesmerizing trans advocates control the world with no money, power, influence or support? I ask merely because global domination techniques when you are broke is a collecting hobby of mine.

 

[Emily's Cat]

The problem you guys have is the only rational argument you have to exclude transsexual women from "female" groups* is when biological sex matters.

I'm caught in a loop between "no ◊◊◊◊, sherlock" and "why do you think this rational argument is a problem?"

 

[Emily's Cat]

Are okay with driving people to suicide because the gender identity they want to be treated as doesn't match their biological sex?

Suicidality should be treated as a mental health issue in and of itself. It's beyond absurd to require that the entire rest of the world play pretend with someone so they don't hurt themselves.

FFS, you've got a toddler threatening to hold their breath until they die unless they get a pony... and you're arguing that the only proper thing for society to do is to give ponies to toddlers on demand. It's so far beyond rational and responsible that I don't even have words for it.

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't think it was a good idea. I think it was reasonable given their choices.

There was nothing reasonable at all about it. They had much better choices available.

But mostly, IDGAF.

Then why are you even posting about it?

You appeared to have accidentally snipped out the direct question that is far more interesting, though. How do these mesmerizing trans advocates control the world with no money, power, influence or support?

What makes you think they don't have any money, power, influence, or support?

I ask merely because global domination techniques when you are broke is a collecting hobby of mine.

Again with this straw.

 

[Emily's Cat]

That is precisely what you and others are saying the right thing to do is. You are taking statistics about a group and advocate taking action against individuals that share characteristics with that group. That is the very definition of profiling. Again, I suggest you vote Reform at the next election. They love profiling particular groups.

Um... no. We're recognizing that males with transgender identities are still males. That's all. We take the position that spaces separated on the basis of sex are separated for fairly good reasons - safety and dignity being at the top of the list. And we want those spaces to continue to be separated on the basis of sex.

So unless you think that sex doesn't matter at all, or you take the position that ALL spaces and services should be unisex and accessible by both sexes at the same time... your position is irrational and detrimental to female human beings.

 

[Emily's Cat]

You think guys generally get cheered up by a strange man ordering them to drop trou and bend over?

Both sexes would prefer a woman do this.

Why would males prefer that their naked bodies be handled and inspected by a female rather than by a male?

Why do you think females prefer that their naked bodies be handled and inspected by a female rather than a male?

 

[Thermal]

There was nothing reasonable at all about it. They had much better choices available

Great.

Then why are you even posting about it?

Because this one guy keeps harping on it.

What makes you think they don't have any money, power, influence, or support?

Observation, and your side's assertions.

Question answered. Patently waiting for you to stop evading the same.

Again with this straw.

Mild hyperbole is not a strawman.

 

[smartcooky]

Do you think reducing child poverty would improve the psychological health of males?

 

[Emily's Cat]

The group, if you mean males, demands no access whatsoever. A small fraction of a percent that feels they are women do.

And again, no males were involved, nor does this resteraunt report any problems with male intrusion to the womens restroom.

Is it now your position that males with transgender identities are NOT male?

 

[smartcooky]

Stupid and flippant response noted.

Not stupid or flippant... But a totally valid response

Public toilets or changing rooms are not and never will be safe spaces from predators.

Perfect is the enemy of good. Amirite?

A women's refuge is a safe space and I can see the function of and benefit from being able to prevent people (including other women) entering such a place.

How very big of you to grant those uppity females a crumb!

 

[Emily's Cat]

Gender discordance in birds....

‘Mind-blown’: scientists discover sex reversal in kookaburras and lorikeets with cause unknown

Almost all of the ‘sex discordant’ birds were genetically female but had male reproductive organs, study finds

www.theguardian.com

No. Disorders of sexual development in birds.

Don't conflate sex and gender.

 

[smartcooky]

Hormone requirements reduce but do not eliminate male athletic advantage.

Indeed. Its been said before, but it bears repeating. There is NO way to undo the benefits of male puberty. In terms of physical strength speed, muscle mass, lung capacity and bone-density, it is a bell that can never be unrung!

 

[Thermal]

Why would males prefer that their naked bodies be handled and inspected by a female rather than by a male?

Why do you think females prefer that their naked bodies be handled and inspected by a female rather than a male?

For the same reason: I think (very broadly) that women are more compassionate and perform intimate caregiving work with more sensitivity than most men. That may be a throwback to my mom, wife, EMTs, nurses, etc very intuitively caring for children and the sick/injured than my clumsy male attempts.