Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Manger Douse]

Yes they could and did. Now TERF vigilantes are watching and throwing those who don't 'pass' out, all good, right?

I'm quite sure they did. My argument is that the recent prevalence is due to reasons I've outlined many times before

 

[Thermal]

Thinking about this, when you said you would prefer to be intimately examined by a woman when the situation demanded, is there any reason a female could refuse to preform this examination on you personally and you wouldn't think of her as a bigot?

Yes, lots of reasons. I don't see how bigotry would factor in at all?

 

[Manger Douse]

Yes, lots of reasons. I don't see how bigotry would factor in at all?

What are these reasons?

 

[Thermal]

Do you let just anyone into your home?

My home is not a place of public accommodation. Come on.

And if the women daren't raise the alarm because they know all the male has to do is utter some magic words and the staff - and the law - will be on his side?

The law would not be on the side of a "misbehaving" person for any reason. Unless you mean "existing" is "misbehaving"? Or you personally don't think they look girly enough?

What is the "misbehaving" male you hypothetically referred to doing?

Most women's instinct when confronted with a stroppy entitled male who is bigger and stronger than they are is to placate and retreat. Women like Sandie Peggie are rare. Most of us need to be 100% sure that help will come before raising that alarm.

I'm pretty sure that guys like myself are out there in substantial numbers, and will neutralize threats first and deal with potential fallout later. Or get gone before having to deal with further debate.

Plenty of people are demanding that indecent exposure and voyeurism be tolerated - but only in what used to be female safe spaces.

Both remain illegal in any context.

And yes if any woman has an issue with a male in their safe space then that male should leave, even if the rest are OK with it

Eeeeeh... dicey. That gives the bigots full force of law at the expense of everyone else. That's the very definition of the extremist position.

 

[Thermal]

What are these reasons?

God told them not to, as the Apocalypse is heralded by exploring my orifices. A wandering gypsy warned them of remarkably good-looking New Jerseans. Their parakeet gave me a funny look.

All of these would be reasons that I would not assume were motivated by bigotry, which is what you asked. Did you mean to ask something wlse?

 

[Manger Douse]

God told them not to, as the Apocalypse is heralded by exploring my orifices. A wandering gypsy warned them of remarkably good-looking New Jerseans. Their parakeet gave me a funny look.

All of these would be reasons that I would not assume were motivated by bigotry, which is what you asked. Did you mean to ask something wlse?

God told me to? Those all strike me as very much bigoted reasons for not wanting to intimately examining you personally. Care to try again? You said there were lots

 

[Thermal]

God told me to? Those all strike me as very much bigoted reasons for not wanting to intimately examining you personally.

Theres nothing inherently bigoted about being devoutly religious or perhaps psychotic, no. In any event, my inference (which is what you asked for) would have no reason to turn to bigotry as opposed to generic looniness

Care to try again?

Not particularly, no.

You said there were lots

Almost infinite, yes. But I can go on with ocelots who moonlight as Oracles all day long. I answered your question directly.

 

[Manger Douse]

Theres nothing inherently bigoted about being devoutly religious or perhaps psychotic, no.

Nothing inherently bigoted about being devoutly religious? It's the dictionary definition of bigoted.
You can't name a single, none bigoted, non ridiculous reason for a woman to refuse to intimately search you can you?

 

[Ziggurat]

And no one is inviting you in. See how that works?

No one is inviting most trans identifying males into female spaces either.

Nor does this have anything to do with my question. If treating someone else the same way that I'm being treated is treating them as a second class citizen, then that implies that I'm being treated as a second class citizen. Conversely, if I am not being treated as a second class citizen, then treating someone else the same way as I am treated is not treating them as a second class citizen. See how that works?

Pixel is the one who wants to let in who she pleases. Do you think you can invite some girls into the men's room at your sole discretion?

Hold up. You are misrepresenting her position. She's not claiming to do this at her sole discretion. She's claiming that ALL the women in the bathroom together have a collective ability to grant permission. So the equivalent would not be me inviting some woman (not a girl, that's another weird substitution you made to make it creepy) in at my sole discretion, but all the men collectively.

Does Ms Pixel swing the door wide for you to come in if she feels like it? More importantly, would you accept her invitation?

I would personally only accept an invitation into the women's bathroom from anyone if there was actually some need for my presence. For a hypothetical example, if there was some emergency need for someone stronger than any of the women there. Not sure what relevance this has.

Pixel42 is obliquely acknowledging the pro trans POV. Transwomen are male,

That is no longer the trans advocate position.

 

[smartcooky]

Yes it is. It must be, because how could public toilets that don't segregate based on sex exist and function perfectly fine if sex was relevant?

You do understand that transgender self-identified men object to only having unisex facilities, right. They self-select out of using unisex toilets, and will use the women's instead. They WANT to use the women's because they want wave their ladydicks in women's faces in order to affirm their "womanhood"^TM
The fact that you promote the idea of making all public toilets unisex makes you a transphobe and a bigot in the eyes of transgender self-identified men

Yes it does prove 100% that sex is not relevant for a public toilet to function perfectly well. Loads of places have only unisex toilets in the UK and I've yet to hear of or personally witness a mass outbreak of women pissing themselves in public because there's nowhere for them to go.

Please point out anywhere, ANYWHERE in the multiple parts of this thread where ANYONE has made this claim

 

[d4m10n]

Clocking a third person's gender, yes.

I don't believe we are clocking gender identity, though, we are clocking sex at puberty (secondary sex characteristics) along with gender expression (tertiary sex characteristics) and then making more-or-less supportable inferences about what that particular combination probably means regarding identity in a given social context. This is why social justice activists insist that we ask for pronouns rather than assuming them.

It's only since TRAs started insisting that we must accept having male strangers billeted on us without our consent, with no recourse if they behave in a way we consider inappropriate, that it has become an issue.

Things would have been much simpler had diners, gyms, spas & etc. been allowed to make and enforce their own rules instead of having to conform with awkwardly written civil rights laws which demand conformity across the board and don't take the trouble to spell out when it's okay (if ever) to provide separate services by sex.

Gender discordance in birds....

Personally, I'm excited to hear insights about sex which will somehow apply to the entire cladogram derived from the most recent common ancestor of mammals and birds.

 

[Manger Douse]

Personally, I'm excited to hear insights about sex which will somehow apply to the entire cladogram derived from the most recent common ancestor of mammals and birds.

I'm interested to know if we should keep the later separate from the bees

 

[smartcooky]

Everyone who disagrees with me is (a) right wing (b) nearly dead.

Pretty convincing stuff.

He's going to be pretty disappointed in the future when he finds that, while old people like me have died off, attitudes won't have changed, because our sons and daughters, grandsons and granddaughters have all be raised to believe in, acknowledge and respect objective, scientific reality.

As an example-of-one, my Gen Z, 16 year old granddaughter thinks men dressing up in women's clothes and using women's toilets is both weird and creepy. Her mother has taught her to refer to them as transgender identified males instead of "transwomen" (she even corrects me when I occasionally slip up).

 

[Thermal]

Nothing inherently bigoted about being devoutly religious? It's the dictionary definition of bigoted.

It is not.

You can't name a single, none bigoted, non ridiculous reason for a woman to refuse to intimately search you can you?

I really can't come up with a good reason why a woman would be insubordinate and refuse to do her job relative to me specifically, no. Even less so for a reason I would find bigoted.

Since the somewhat stupid question has no details, I am forced to speculate on reasons. I could speculate that the woman knows me, and requests a stranger to perform the invasive search for our interpersonal comfort. I could speculate that this woman believes this strip search is unnecessary and punative, and refuse to comply with what she perceives an unlawful order. I could speculate that she has had it with her job overall and randomly chose this moment to be obstinately insubordinate.

And before you complain that I am adding elements, consider that you gave nothing to work with, yet required a reason. That's logically impossible without making ◊◊◊◊ up.

 

[d4m10n]

I could speculate that the woman knows me, and requests a stranger to perform the invasive search for our interpersonal comfort. I could speculate that this woman believes this strip search is unnecessary and punitive, and refuse to comply with what she perceives an unlawful order. I could speculate that she has had it with her job overall and randomly chose this moment to be obstinately insubordinate.

You could speculate that she is aware of the general norm that most people prefer to have such searches conducted (if they must be) by members of the same sex class as themselves.

 

[Manger Douse]

It is not.

Just stop this - Being devoutly religious is an obstinate attachment to a belief. Quite literally the dictionary definition of bigotry and I'll be wasting no more time about this childishness

How about if this hypothetical woman was once violently raped by another man (obviously) or men - could she object to intimately searching you or is she being obstinately insubordinate?

 

[angrysoba]

You do understand that transgender self-identified men object to only having unisex facilities, right. They self-select out of using unisex toilets, and will use the women's instead. They WANT to use the women's because they want wave their ladydicks in women's faces in order to affirm their "womanhood"^TM
The fact that you promote the idea of making all public toilets unisex makes you a transphobe and a bigot in the eyes of transgender self-identified men

Okay, this is also nonsense isn’t it?

According to you, you know of a transwoman who competes in your pub quiz, and according to you, they use the men’s.

Also, you have in the past insisted that you are not against transgender people per se but against the demands of the TRAs.

Yet suddenly you make no distinction and seem to be of the opinion that the sole reason they want access to woman’s toilets is to “wave their ladydicks in women’s faces”.

Errmmm, smartcooky, does that even make the slightest bit of sense?

How do you even imagine this is actually happening?

Bear in mind, you claim this is the reason they won’t use the unisex toilets.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

He's going to be pretty disappointed in the future when he finds that, while old people like me have died off, attitudes won't have changed, because our sons and daughters, grandsons and granddaughters have all be raised to believe in, acknowledge and respect objective, scientific reality.

As an example-of-one, my Gen Z, 16 year old granddaughter thinks men dressing up in women's clothes and using women's toilets is both weird and creepy. Her mother has taught her to refer to them as transgender identified males instead of "transwomen" (she even corrects me when I occasionally slip up).

Just out of curiosity, what terminology have your granddaughters be taught to use to refer to transsexual men? And do they find transsexual men 'weird and creepy' too?

 

[smartcooky]

...?

Exactly right! You, not understanding what she said, pretty much shows everyone that she is right... you're a man, with a man's perspective, projecting a man's opinion in an attempt to put down this damned, uppity woman because she just wont agree with you, and bloody well doesn't know her place.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

You could speculate that she is aware of the general norm that most people prefer to have such searches conducted (if they must be) by members of the same sex class as themselves.

I find that odd. If I was being strip searched my first criteria (if I got a choice) would be having the most gentle and friendly looking person to do it. What the person's sex was would probably not be high on the list.