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Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

Ziggurat said:
His status was never pending. He is and always has been an illegal alien. The court order against his deportation had nothing to do with a dispute about his status, it was only about the safety of deporting him.
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not much more clear cut that a guy has a legal right to be here than a judge issuing a court order saying he has a right to be here to me. ymmv
 
dirtywick said:
not much more clear cut that a guy has a legal right to be here than a judge issuing a court order saying he has a right to be here to me. ymmv
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You are arguing with someone who has swallowed whole a "Go back to Africa" style political philosophy. Garcia will still be brown no matter what the law says, so the white nationalist will never be satisfied with his presence within these borders.
 
Ziggurat said:
His status was never pending. He is and always has been an illegal alien. The court order against his deportation had nothing to do with a dispute about his status, it was only about the safety of deporting him.
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He cannot be deported to El Salvador.
 
dirtywick said:
not much more clear cut that a guy has a legal right to be here than a judge issuing a court order saying he has a right to be here to me. ymmv
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No, it doesn't. Here's the 2019 court order which prohibited his deportation to El Salvador:
www.documentcloud.org

Kilmar Abrego Garcia Immigration Review Order_10-10-2019

This 2019 order demonstrates Garcia's request for withholding is for Guatemala and not El Salvador. The order states Garcia is a "native and citizen of El Salvador," and his removability from the U.S. was clearly established. The conclusion states: The Respondent's application for asylum is...
www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org
The last page has the ruling, where he is denied asylum and denied protection under CAT, but granted a "withholding of removal". But here's the interesting part for our present purposes. On page 6, it says:

"Withholding of removal, in contrast to asylum, confers only the right not to be deported to​
a particular country rather than the right to remain in the U.S. INS v. Aguirre-Aguirre, 526 U.S.​
415 (1999)."​
​
That's not my words, that's not ICE's words, that's the judge's words in the very order that granted Garcia a withholding of removal. The court explicitly said that it was NOT granting Garcia the right to remain in the US by giving him a withholding of removal order. Garcia remains deportable to other countries under this order.
 
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AmyStrange said:
This is not news to me, but of course, the fat clown and his maga weirdoes will probably call this "fake news":

Trump admin's deportation figures track below Obama's—New data
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Indeed, this is old data. Very old. This story is from 2014:
www.latimes.com

High deportation figures are misleading

Immigrants living illegally beyond the border area are less likely to be deported under 'deporter in chief' President Obama, contrary to widespread belief.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

"On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency’s deportation statistics.​
​
The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now."​

They goosed the statistics under Obama to make it seem like they were deporting more people than they were actually deporting.
 
Ziggurat said:
Indeed, this is old data. Very old. This story is from 2014:
www.latimes.com

High deportation figures are misleading

Immigrants living illegally beyond the border area are less likely to be deported under 'deporter in chief' President Obama, contrary to widespread belief.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com

"On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency’s deportation statistics.​
​
The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now."​

They goosed the statistics under Obama to make it seem like they were deporting more people than they were actually deporting.
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Bwahahahahaha... thanks for the laugh.
 
Ziggurat said:
No, it doesn't. Here's the 2019 court order which prohibited his deportation to El Salvador:
www.documentcloud.org

Kilmar Abrego Garcia Immigration Review Order_10-10-2019

This 2019 order demonstrates Garcia's request for withholding is for Guatemala and not El Salvador. The order states Garcia is a "native and citizen of El Salvador," and his removability from the U.S. was clearly established. The conclusion states: The Respondent's application for asylum is...
www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org
The last page has the ruling, where he is denied asylum and denied protection under CAT, but granted a "withholding of removal". But here's the interesting part for our present purposes. On page 6, it says:

"Withholding of removal, in contrast to asylum, confers only the right not to be deported to​
a particular country rather than the right to remain in the U.S. INS v. Aguirre-Aguirre, 526 U.S.​
415 (1999)."​
​
That's not my words, that's not ICE's words, that's the judge's words in the very order that granted Garcia a withholding of removal. The court explicitly said that it was NOT granting Garcia the right to remain in the US by giving him a withholding of removal order. Garcia remains deportable to other countries under this order.
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wow anything happen more recently than that we should be aware of?
 
dirtywick said:
wow anything happen more recently than that we should be aware of?
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Nothing about his status has changed since then. All the recent rulings have been based on the original 2019 stay. He has never been given legal status.

Got anything to prove me wrong?
 
Ziggurat said:
Nothing about his status has changed since then. All the recent rulings have been based on the original 2019 stay. He has never been given legal status.

Got anything to prove me wrong?
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yeah the recent court order saying he has a right to stay here that i linked to earlier lol
 
Hercules56 said:
How can you legally deport someone to a country they are not a citizen of?
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Why would it be illegal?

That the third country has to be willing to take them, of course. And that can be a serious impediment, which is part of why such third country removals are rare. But if they can't be deported to the country they're from, a third country is willing to take them, and they don't have legal grounds to contest removal to that third country, then it's perfectly legal. There have been legal disputes about the process by which those removals happen, but that they can happen under some process really isn't under dispute.
 
Ziggurat said:
Quote from it. Show me where it says he's a legal resident.
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You don't have to be a legal resident to be here legally. If it were so easy to be deported then they should have deported him properly in the first place. They had 4 years to do it, why didn't they?
 
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dirtywick said:
i’ve already explained my reasoning and linked relevant articles.
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The articles don't say what you claim they say.
dirtywick said:
you can read it yourself and come to your own conclusions on the meaning as it relates to what i said.
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First link:
"A United States judge has blocked immigration authorities from immediately detaining and deporting Kilmar Abrego Garcia upon his release from jail."
"Xinis issued a ruling requiring that immigration officials to give him notice of three business days if they initiate removal proceedings."

So according to Xinis, the government can still initiate removal proceedings, they just need to give him notice and go through the proper steps of those proceedings. Nothing about this ruling gives Garcia status as a legal resident.

"Xinis also ordered the government to restore the legal status that Abrego Garcia had previously been under, which allowed him to live and work in Maryland."

And what was that previous legal status? Why, it was the 2019 judgment that explicitly DID NOT give him the right to be in the US. He's able to live and work in Maryland until his deportation is properly completed. But he can still be deported. Having an actual legal right to be in the US would categorically prohibit deportation, and that has not happened.

You have fundamentally misunderstood the legal situation.
 
plague311 said:
You don't have to be a legal resident to be here legally.
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Sure, within appropriate legal time limits. Garcia has exceeded those. He is an illegal alien. That isn't actually under dispute.
plague311 said:
If it were so easy to be deported then they should have deported him properly in the first place.
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Do you actually understand why he wasn't? No, I don't think you do. The reason he wasn't deported in 2019 has nothing to do with him having any right to be here. The judge who made that ruling said so explicitly.
 
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