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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Pixel42 said:
Some posters seem to keep forgeting that (a) we're not just talking about toilets and (b) granting trans identifying males the right to not have to pee/change/shower etc in the presence of males automatically removes that exact same right from actual females.
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They're not forgetting, they just don't give a flying ◊◊◊◊!
 
Emily's Cat said:
I imagine the scenario plays out thus:

  1. Cheek swab comes back XY - everyone is shocked, including Alex who has every feature of a female that is visible to the naked eye, and whose gyno didn't even know their karyotype was atypical
  2. Secondary test comes back positive for SRY... and everyone raises an eyebrow because Alex has absolutely NONE of the physical attributes that SRY prompts
  3. Tertiary testing comes back with a diagnosis of CAIS... and everyone says "Ahh, that makes sense. Alex can compete in the female event"

And the world moves on
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I see a different scenario. Girls are told privately by their coaches that anyone who has had a period has nothing to be concerned about, it's a formality. Anyone who hasn't needs to talk to her mother and then her doctor. These girls become the responsibility of the medical profession before any testing happens.

Some will simply be late developers or maybe training too hard. No issues. Some will have DSDs. Some of these will be found to have no functional SRY gene so in no danger of failing the test. But they will now be getting the medical and psychological support they need. Some will be actual males with functional SRY genes and androgen receptors (and probably already some suspicions about what is going on). They will never present for testing, but again they will get the medical and psychological support they need. And some will have CAIS, and if the rules are appropriately written they will eventually be deemed to be eligible to compete. And again they will get the medical and psychological support they need.

Nobody should find out a DSD diagnosis through a sports eligibility test. It can be devastating. The existence of the test should prompt a pre-testing protocol that prevents this.

The result is that nobody will ever fail. And then someone will say, as they did in 1999, we're not catching any ineligible applicants, everybody is passing, why are we spending all this money, we don't need this testing. Hopefully by then it will be recognised that it's the existence of the testing process that prevents the problems arising in the first place. They don't stop dope testing if they don't catch anyone doping, do they?
 
Aber said:
Brighton NHS Trust

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-56007728
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The link to the trusts document on your bbc link doesn't work anymore, but the bbc report itself is rather amusing as it's got 1 transgroup loving it and another trans advocate hating it.
But your link doesn't say you can't call it breastfeeding? It seems to say that they are adding extra gender neutral terms, not taking anything away from language?
 
smartcooky said:
Britain's NHS for a start

"Chest feeding" is to be used instead of breastfeeding
"Birthing parent" is to be used instead of mother
"Second biological parent" is to be used instead of father

Failure to use the "correct" terminology when speaking to patients is grounds for disciplinary action.

Women working in NHS have been suspended for complaining about TIMs in their changing rooms.


Maybe this is a question you need to be asking Monika Burzynska, Paula Scanlan, Riley Gaines and other members of the UPenn women's swim team.
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Got a source for that?
 
d4m10n said:
Is this a claim worth discussing here, in your view?

(I'm going to go ahead and do so, but interested to hear your answer nevertheless.)

Assuming the IOC (and her family in various interviews) didn't lie about the circumstances of her birth, she was assigned female at birth.

Assuming the IOC issued correction was not misinformation, they admitted that Khelif "not a transgender case" while disclaiming the original unscripted claim that Khelif was "not a DSD case."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1819667573698445793

While you are correct that her medical records have not been made public (unless we count Le Correspondant as a credible source) the DSD hypothesis seems much stronger than the hypothesis that she undertook a course of gender affirmation contrary to her birth sex while growing up in a nation overwhelmingly dominated by Sunni Islam.
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I see no evidence that Khelif has ever dressed or behaved in a way that would be typical of a female in Algeria, or ever been treated in the way that a female in Algeria is conventionally treated. I see no evidence that he has any sort of DSD. I await developments.
 
Rolfe said:
I see no evidence that Khelif has ever dressed or behaved in a way that would be typical of a female in Algeria, or ever been treated in the way that a female in Algeria is conventionally treated. I see no evidence that he has any sort of DSD. I await developments.
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I haven't either, but it wouldn't matter even if there were. Even supposing he was raised socially as a female, he should still be disqualified from the women's competition, which is why I don't worry too much about it.
 
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Ziggurat said:
Even supposing he was raised socially as a female, he should still be disqualified from the women's competition, which is why I don't worry too much about it.
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Disqualified by the same testing protocol and for the basically same reasons, too.

I'd go even further and argue that biological females who underwent male puberty due to exogenous hormone treatments (East Germany provided a few historical examples) ought to be barred from the protected sex category in elite sport even after the treatments have ceased, because the advantages gained cannot be detransed away.
 
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d4m10n said:
I'm operating on the assumption that Khelif was originally raised as female by her family, which means she had to transition to being treated as male (including the physical interactions you mentioned) sometime later in life.
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An assumption for which I have seen no evidence. Pictures of a girl child could be anyone.
 
Just for giggles now. The toilets in the McDonald's in Fort William.

20250714_165857.jpg

Whoever said they were labelled male and female was right. Also, whoever said that this would not deter trans-identifying men from using the one on the left was also right.
 
Rolfe said:
Just for giggles now. The toilets in the McDonald's in Fort William.

View attachment 62431

Whoever said they were labelled male and female was right. Also, whoever said that this would not deter trans-identifying men from using the one on the left was also right.
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You can expect those who denied this was a thing will either.
a. Completely ignore your post, or
b. Handwave this away wiith some BS story and remind everyone this is not how it is in his tiny part of the globe.
 
smartcooky said:
You can expect those who denied this was a thing will either.
a. Completely ignore your post, or
b. Handwave this away wiith some BS story and remind everyone this is not how it is in his tiny part of the globe.
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Ok smartcooky. I'll break out my bag of Troll Chow for you.

Rolfe shows a pic of a tile wall with male and female rest room signage. What do you conclude from this? Assuming it is even from a McDonalds, of course. Let's take that as a given.

A person of reasonable intelligence would question whether this one pic out of the 42,000 resteraunts is representative enough to claim it reflects a policy. A person of reasonable intelligence would also question if McDonalds even *has* a policy for restroom signage (hint: they don't. I posted a letter from McDonalds HQ earlier where they point out all global McDs are individually franchised, and each management determines its own restroom usage and signsge).

But you seem pretty impressed with Rolfe's evidence, what with being a smart cookie and all. Would you have been equally impressed if I posted the pic below as evidence? It shows a McDonalds resteraunt in Mays Landing NJ USA located on USRt 40 (note the yellow cone with the McD logo) with... gasp... men and women on the signage. As virtually all of them have, save the occasional weirdo.

So what would a smart cookie think? Does McDonalds use Male and Female signage? Or does McDonalds use nothing at all and leaves those decisions up to individual franchises, in which case Aber, Rolfe, and yourself didn't put a minute of skeptical thinking into it, but invested lots of keystrokes in being snotty, trying to score points without thinking it through?

Aber was flat wrong, and knows it. Rolfe also knows she is wrong, but prefaced her post with "just for giggles" to plausibly deny being taken at her word. You alone seem to be the only one taking this seriously.
 

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Handwave BS as expected.....so predictable

ETA: Let me give you a clue. No-one here but you gives a fat rat's arse how you do things in New Jersey!
 
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Other people can read that post. You are not fooling anybody at all.

ETA: your ETA: I'm not suggesting they do, or should. That's just another weird thing you keep repeating. You repeat a lot of really, really weird things.
 
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lionking said:
You do realise that the names on the toilets make no difference to transwomen determined to use sex segregated toilets, don’t you?
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Yes. What does that have to do with what we were talking about?

What we were talking about is a bald and unevidenced assertion made by Aber twice, that McDonalds uses Male and Female signage on their restrooms. Rolfe felt compelled to bring it up again a week after everyone else had dropped it.
 
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