Trump's promised ICE raids have begun

[W.D.Clinger]

It's not as if the authorities were getting excited at the thought of prisoners getting eaten alive by alligators. Oh, wait ...

Are detainees actually at risk of being eaten by alligators?

If they aren't, then those who were so gleefully excited by the thought of prisoners being eaten by alligators must be utter fools.

But I guess we knew that already.

 

[TragicMonkey]

The extent of this surge in immigration enforcement seems unjustified, in my opinion. Does it really need this much expense in time, money, and resources? It's disproportionate to the actual problems caused by illegal immigration. It's using sledgehammer to swat a mosquito. If the US really is in such dire financial straits as we've been told, that require vast layoffs of civil service and massive reduction across all federal agencies...then how can this incredible expansion and enormous pouring of money into immigration enforcement be justified?

One needn't be unopposed to illegal immigration to find the current expansion of enforcement unwise and unwelcome. What we were doing for the previous forty years seemed good enough, why change it now? When there are so many more important areas we could devote the resources to.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yup, playing semantics is the last-ditch move of someone losing an arguement.

Advocating assassination is a winning argument?

You do you, I guess.

 

[Ziggurat]

What we were doing for the previous forty years seemed good enough, why change it now?

It wasn’t good enough. Rather obviously.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

It worked for Trump

 

[TragicMonkey]

It wasn’t good enough. Rather obviously.

I don't think that's true, and certainly not obviously true. The measures previously undertaken strike me as entirely adequate for the problem. I don't believe it was ever necessary, then or now, to achieve a 0% illegal alien presence in the US. In fact, just like unemployment numbers, having a certain percentage is better for the overall good.

 

[Planigale]

The child was not actually deported unless there is a specific deportation letter for said child. The mother had every right to take her child with her. It's called parental rights.

Wouldn't the father have a parental right too? In general courts are not keen on one parent taking a child out of the country without permission of the other parent.

 

[Planigale]

I'm pretty sure that detaining citizens during an investigation is a fundamental part of due process, that law enforcement engages in thousands of times every day, across the country.

It does seem the default in the US perhaps because of private prisons. In many other countries detention would be unusual during the investigatory phase, a case would have to be made to justify detention, e.g. flight risk, threat to witnesses, the majority would be released following arrest though with some restrictions. It certainly isn't seen as part of due process.

 

[AmyStrange]

Advocating assassination is a winning argument?

You do you, I guess.

Nope, wrong again.

Advocating someone supports assassination by using twisted semantics is not winning.

It's a desperate attempt to salvage a lost arguement, and it's what losers do to save face.


Anyway (getting back to the REAL subject of this thread), you still haven't answered my question, when is the fat clown going to deport those 11 - 60 million illegals the maga weirdoes claim to have snuck into this country while Biden was in charge, and do you know where I can find these numbers?


-

 

[Pixel42]

I don't think that's true, and certainly not obviously true. The measures previously undertaken strike me as entirely adequate for the problem. I don't believe it was ever necessary, then or now, to achieve a 0% illegal alien presence in the US. In fact, just like unemployment numbers, having a certain percentage is better for the overall good.

I guess it depends which is more important to you: having your crops not rot in the fields for lack of anyone to pick them/old folk not lie in their own ◊◊◊◊ in their care homes for lack of anyone to wipe their bottoms for them etc, or reducing to an absolute minimum the number of people you pass in the street who don't look and sound exactly like you.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I guess it depends which is more important to you: having your crops not rot in the fields for lack of anyone to pick them/old folk not lie in their own ◊◊◊◊ in their care homes for lack of anyone to wipe their bottoms for them etc, or reducing to an absolute minimum the number of people you pass in the street who don't look and sound exactly like you.

There's an easy solution to "illegal" immigrants: Have a recognised and published legal program for seasonal itinerant workers such as crop-pickers that gives them a legal avenue to be in the USA, perhaps for a limited time, in specific locations, for specific purposes (or any combo). I suspect this already exists, so any USAian can inform us.

The problem is that "illegal immigration" isn't really the issue that ICE is trying to address. That's a furphy, an excuse, a front for what they are REALLY wanting to do. It is, as you say, making the USA into an all-white, heterosexual-only, paternalistic, fascist regime. Gilead. And that means all the "non-whites (definition to be supplied by ICE)" have to be removed.

If this keeps up, I will not be surprised to see women, especially outspoken women who oppose this regime, become targets as well. They are already picking the ones in hijabs. How soon before the ones in wimples, scarves and hats are next.

 

[theprestige]

That's a bit platitudinous?

Fight platitudes with platitudes, I always say?

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Fight platitudes with platitudes, I always say?

They're orthogonal to plongitudes.

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't think that's true, and certainly not obviously true.

We have over 10 million illegal aliens in the US. That's a failure, and a problem. An obvious one.

The measures previously undertaken strike me as entirely adequate for the problem.

If they were, we would not have over 10 million illegal aliens in the country.

I don't believe it was ever necessary, then or now, to achieve a 0% illegal alien presence in the US.

We should have been able to achieve something much less than 10 million.

In fact, just like unemployment numbers, having a certain percentage is better for the overall good.

No, it isn't.

 

[AmyStrange]

We have over 10 million illegal aliens in the US. That's a failure, and a problem. An obvious one.

If they were, we would not have over 10 million illegal aliens in the country.

We should have been able to achieve something much less than 10 million.

No, it isn't.

So, once again, how many of these "10 million illegal aliens" has the fat clown been able to deport and where can I find those numbers?


-

 

[Olmstead]

We have over 10 million illegal aliens in the US. That's a failure, and a problem. An obvious one.

If they were, we would not have over 10 million illegal aliens in the country.

We should have been able to achieve something much less than 10 million.

No, it isn't.

Obvious as in "I have all this data on how illegal immigration has been more harmful than ICE bedlam", or obvious as in "My immigration-sense is tingling"?

 

[Vixen]

There's an easy solution to "illegal" immigrants: Have a recognised and published legal program for seasonal itinerant workers such as crop-pickers that gives them a legal avenue to be in the USA, perhaps for a limited time, in specific locations, for specific purposes (or any combo). I suspect this already exists, so any USAian can inform us.

The problem is that "illegal immigration" isn't really the issue that ICE is trying to address. That's a furphy, an excuse, a front for what they are REALLY wanting to do. It is, as you say, making the USA into an all-white, heterosexual-only, paternalistic, fascist regime. Gilead. And that means all the "non-whites (definition to be supplied by ICE)" have to be removed.

If this keeps up, I will not be surprised to see women, especially outspoken women who oppose this regime, become targets as well. They are already picking the ones in hijabs. How soon before the ones in wimples, scarves and hats are next.

They were already going after the ones with cats!

However, he then blew it by saying the quiet part out loud, which, if we substitute “quiet” for “◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ crazy” is the new Republican playbook. They’re “a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and the choices that they’ve made and so they want to make the rest of the country miserable too”.

When those remarks resurfaced this summer, Harris’s campaign team said that Vance was “not pro-family [but] anti-women”. [JD Vance] GUARDIAN

 

[Vixen]

Fight platitudes with platitudes, I always say?

The logical fallacy of the non sequitur.

 

[Mojo]

It does seem the default in the US perhaps because of private prisons. In many other countries detention would be unusual during the investigatory phase, a case would have to be made to justify detention, e.g. flight risk...

They could just confiscate their passports to stop them leaving the country before they can be deported.

 

[TragicMonkey]

We have over 10 million illegal aliens in the US. That's a failure, and a problem. An obvious one.

If they were, we would not have over 10 million illegal aliens in the country.

We should have been able to achieve something much less than 10 million.

No, it isn't.

I disagree. 10 million makes less than 3% of the total population. That doesn't strike me as unmanageable under previous enforcement mechanisms. The system worked before just fine: it let enough stay to work the necessary jobs without having too many in to cause disruption.

This is not an actual crisis. It is an invention of politicians for their own political gain -- and the nation's increasing financial losses. Putting aside all humanitarian considerations this expansion of enforcement is bad for the nation economically.