Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[smartcooky]

I'm in the UK, and was responding to another UK resident.

Some posters here don't think anything exists outside their own tiny part of the world, and that their laws, attitude and culture are universal everywhere.

 

[Pixel42]

To be fair it's hard to keep track of where all the posters you're interacting with live, which is why the 'Location' field is so useful. Unless of course the poster doesn't bother to fill it in (e.g. Aber) or, even more annoyingly, chooses to fill it in with something other than their location (e.g. Thermal).

 

[theprestige]

Translocations are not locations.

 

[Rolfe]

Some way needs to be set out to deal with cases where a mistake has been made on the original birth certificate, that's all. I suspect fewer of these "mistakes" would happen if the possibility of a lucrative athletics career wasn't on the table.

 

[Aber]

To be fair it's hard to keep track of where all the posters you're interacting with live, which is why the 'Location' field is so useful. Unless of course the poster doesn't bother to fill it in (e.g. Aber)

Not needed as my user name is location based - I live in Aber-

 

[smartcooky]

Not needed as my user name is location based - I live in Aber-

Wales then.

 

[Graham2001]

From the Republic of Ireland...

“We are not asking to speak anymore,” Annaïg Birdy says. “We are refusing to be interrupted.” The 27-year-old Dubliner knows a thing or two about the culture of conformity in Ireland’s LGBT spaces. When she came out as a lesbian 10 years ago, she was encouraged to attend youth meetings run by a support service called BeLonG To. It was an experience that Birdy now compares to “gay conversion therapy”, though in reverse: the group puts “massive pressure” on gender non-conforming children, i.e. most lesbian and gay youth, to identify as non-binary or transgender. At the first meeting she attended, they talked about how girls could hide chest binders from their parents. When she later slipped up on someone’s pronouns, she was ostracised from her cohort.

https://unherd.com/2025/06/meet-irelands-gender-rebels/

 

[Rolfe]

Wales then.

Aberdeen, Aberfeldy, Aberfoyle, Aberdour, Abernethy .... need I go on?

I believe it's the same element as inver (inbhir), which means a confluence, so we can add everything beginning with Inver as well. Inverness, Inveraray, Inbhir Àir (Ayr), Inverkip, Inverclyde, Invergordon ... and I'll stop there without going on to Innerleithen etc.

Aber and Inver (placename elements) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Thermal]

I'm in the UK, and was responding to another UK resident.

You forgot to read the post. I was reminding you that you had said this to yours truly earlier, who is not a UK poster. Not much shade under your chosen fig leaf.

You cited your personal observation ("every one I've been in recently does") and an AI generated overview, probably knowing that the AI would miss the distinction between male/female and men/women. Here's another version of a thoughtful AI response:

"McDonald's UK, like many businesses, generally adheres to a policy of allowing customers and employees to use restrooms that align with their gender identity. While some franchises may have individual policies, McDonald's supports the principle of safe and dignified restroom access for everyone, regardless of gender identity, according to a HuffPost article and Salon.com.

So I searched the web for any other reference or picture of such signage. Nothing. And since McD has a stated non-discrimination/LGBT friendly position (even offering surgery), to take such a blatantly politically charged stance seems incredible. But far more incredible would be that no one on the planet seems to have noticed this but you?

This would be front page international boycott territory if true. I note none of the other UK posters have confirmed this, and in fact pepper references to it with "even if true" qualifiers. Are you still pretty sure about it?

 

[Thermal]

To be fair it's hard to keep track of where all the posters you're interacting with live, which is why the 'Location' field is so useful. Unless of course the poster doesn't bother to fill it in (e.g. Aber) or, even more annoyingly, chooses to fill it in with something other than their location (e.g. Thermal).

That's exactly why, whenever I make a geographic reference, I include where I am. In the post in question, I made a point of saying 'two US States', and named Pittsburgh for further clarification. It really shouldn't be 'more annoyingly' when it's spelled right out in the post.

 

[d4m10n]

And?

And in those cases it would be obviously wrong to assume they will simply go off sex as documented at birth, because "they have reason to doubt the birth certificate" in detailed individual medical records.

You think they have trouble recognizing CAIS individuals as female?

Given that they are now constrained by an executive order which defines sex as a property we all have "at conception," I expect they will have some trouble recognizing this going forward—CAIS individuals are genetic males, after all. Can you think of an argument that starts from their genetic complement and ends up concluding they are female?

[IOC] policy was to use the sex/gender listed on the competitor's passport…

Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting never undertook anything resembling the Gender Recognition Certificate process; they both got their passport marker as a result of the sex assigned/certified to them at birth.

I don't think his birth certificate has ever been made public.

Fair enough; I'm inferring the information on the certificate from statements such as “We have two boxers who were born as women...” which IOC officials used to justify their inclusion in women's sport. We probably agree that sex testing via cheek swab would be a much better solution than the polices we saw implemented at the 2024 Olympics, and we probably agree that the most influential lobby against the implementation of genetic testing are activist groups working under the LGBTQIA+ umbrella. We may also agree that the most influential subgroup under that diverse umbrella are the trans activists, who are fighting for intersex athletes like Khelif and Lin for the sake of opening up the female category to athletes like Hubbard and Thomas.

Some way needs to be set out to deal with cases where a mistake has been made on the original birth certificate, that's all.

 

[Ziggurat]

And in those cases it would be obviously wrong to assume they will simply go off sex as documented at birth, because "they have reason to doubt the birth certificate" in detailed individual medical records.

Again, no. A detailed medical record would indicate that they are a female with CAIS.

Given that they are now constrained by an executive order which defines sex as a property we all have "at conception," I expect they will have some trouble recognizing this going forward—CAIS individuals are genetic males, after all. Can you think of an argument that starts from their genetic complement and ends up concluding they are female?

You seem to think that the genetics of sex is simply XX vs XY. It is not.

Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting never undertook anything resembling the Gender Recognition Certificate process; they both got their passport marker as a result of the sex assigned/certified to them at birth.

You have no idea how Imane Khelif got the mark they have on their passport. Nor is it relevant, because the IOC did not actually consider any of that, because that wasn't the rule. The IOC may have appealed to Khelif being raised female (for which we have no evidence) because it makes for better PR, but that's all it was, PR. They don't actually care about that part. If they did, it would be part of the rules, but it wasn't.

 

[Pixel42]

I note none of the other UK posters have confirmed this

I have no idea, and I have no intention of going into a McDonald's to find out. I do have some standards.

I'm currently on holiday in Iceland and, according to yesterday's tour guide, a brief attempt to establish McDonald's here failed because there's no such thing as meat that is not top quality. So they couldn't make burgers cheap enough for them to be a going concern.

That's exactly why, whenever I make a geographic reference, I include where I am. In the post in question, I made a point of saying 'two US States', and named Pittsburgh for further clarification. It really shouldn't be 'more annoyingly' when it's spelled right out in the post.

It's not just so posters can say 'here' unambiguously, though, it's useful background information for a lot of topics. It's also a quick way to check if someone is deliberately ignoring the question you asked them, or just asleep.

 

[Thermal]

I have no idea, and I have no intention of going into a McDonald's to find out. I do have some standards.

I'm currently on holiday in Iceland and, according to yesterday's tour guide, a brief attempt to establish McDonald's here failed because there's no such thing as meat that is not top quality. So they couldn't make burgers cheap enough for them to be a going concern.

I hear this. I was making dedicated trips to look at the McD restrooms when one was nearby, because I don't eat there either. Aber's claim intrigued me because it is pretty transparently bull ◊◊◊◊, yet repeated even after being called on it.

It's not just so posters can say 'here' unambiguously, though, it's useful background information for a lot of topics. It's also a quick way to check if someone is deliberately ignoring the question you asked them, or just asleep.

True, but double edged. It also leads some posters to make assumptions based on stereotypical beliefs, which I'd prefer to steer clear of. It's probably best if posts are read in a vacuum, free of any perceived/projected/assumed bias, and geographical clarification introduced when necessary for context.

 

[p0lka]

No. Society keeps doing rational things like segregating things like restrooms, shelters, prisons, and sports by sex.

Do you think that it's rational to segregate things by sex, then don't use sex labels but gender labels instead?...even though I have pointed out that gender was a separate thing since the 70's in my experience?

And then in some cases some subsets of society bow to irrational demands from trans rights activists, to pretend they meant gender all along, and that sex is either irrelevant or changeable by personal fiat.

The whole opposition to trans rights activism is the opposition to it taking over more and more of society with its nonsense. There's no reason to concede victory to them ahead of time, as you are doing. The trend is reversible, not a done deal, as you seem to think.

It's an imaginary war you're thinking of, what's the expression? facts are facts, argue with them at your peril.

 

[theprestige]

Do you think that it's rational to segregate things by sex, then don't use sex labels but gender labels instead?...even though I have pointed out that gender was a separate thing since the 70's in my experience?

Nobody is this confused.

 

[p0lka]

As you have been repeatedly told, it wouldn't make any difference if they were labelled "male" and "female" - out there, right now, there are fully-intact, trans-identified biological males, complete with bollocks and penises, who insist they are biologically female - I kid you not...

Trans women are ‘biologically female’? That’s not what I was taught at medical school

The Fife health board is the latest NHS trust to be challenged on their policy relating to female changing facilities. Sandie Peggie, a nurse, has taken the health board and Dr Beth Upton to tribunal after being suspended following an incident on Christmas Eve 2023. She has lodged a complaint of...

www.yahoo.com

Ms Peggie believed this person was a male and felt unhappy about their using the women’s facilities. Dr Beth Upton, who was born male but now identifies as female, later proceeded to make a formal complaint, with Ms Peggie being suspended from work and investigated for bullying.​

​

However, in evidence to the employment tribunal, Dr Upton has rejected the claim of being male, stating: “I’m biologically female”, and saying, “The term biologically female or biologically male is completely nebulous. It has no defined or agreed meaning in science, as far as I’m aware.”​

These morons will just go right ahead and use your female-labelled facilities anyway. Furthermore, TRAs, and their sycophants is this very thread (we all know who they are) will support them in their claim.

Relabelling all single-sex facilities "male" and "female" will cost a LOT of money, and will achieve exactly nothing!

Repeatedly being told something doesn't make it correct. What matters is evidence and data.

 

[Ziggurat]

Do you think that it's rational to segregate things by sex, then don't use sex labels but gender labels instead?...even though I have pointed out that gender was a separate thing since the 70's in my experience?

I don't believe you about your experience. Nor does it seem to match anyone else's.

And the labels don't matter anyways, it's the rules that matter. You've pointed that out yourself. Pretending the labels are the important part at this late hour is dishonest.

 

[p0lka]

McDonalds uses male and female.

Well there's a data point.

You said that earlier in the thread, and I made a point of looking, often stopping in if one was close just to see. In every McDonalds I've stopped in in two US states, they all say men/women, with one near Pittsburgh saying men /ladies. I wanted to take pics but it felt really weird.

Haven't seen anything online noting this unique aberration either.

Dammit.

 

[p0lka]

I don't believe you about your experience. Nor does it seem to match anyone else's.

And the labels don't matter anyways, it's the rules that matter. You've pointed that out yourself. Pretending the labels are the important part at this late hour is dishonest.

ok I'll shorten the question to you, Do you think that it's rational to segregate things by sex, then don't use sex labels but gender labels instead?