• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

theprestige said:
I'll put you down for "in favor of bombing Iran's uranium enrichment facilities".
Click to expand...
That's where the goalposts are now? How much cash did this boondoggle blow through? If we only have twenty of a bomb, they can't have been cheap.

Had. If we only had twenty.
 
Hercules56 said:
en.wikipedia.org

Nuclear program of Iran - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

According to the UN, and Iran, Iran had been enraging uranium up to 60%, and even sometimes 84%. None of this has any civilian purpose whatsoever.

Clearly they were just playing a game of chicken and apparently they just lost big time. I think they believed that if they enriched to 60%, the world would say we better back off and be nice to them otherwise they will go to weapons grade.

Instead the world decided 60% is too close to weapons grade and we have to stop them we no longer have a choice.

en.wikipedia.org

Nuclear program of Iran - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...
I... actually agree with you.
 
I don't even think Trump is too happy. I think he really DID TACOed out .. but army / intelligence fellas just made him change his mind (by massaging his ego, no doubt). Or the "jew overlords" stepped in ? The strike is cutting straight perpendicular to political split. Republicans can't agree on it, democrats are a bit more unified by hate for Trump, but as the issue alone stand, I think they are also split quite evenly.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
That's where the goalposts are now? How much cash did this boondoggle blow through? If we only have twenty of a bomb, they can't have been cheap.

Had. If we only had twenty.
Click to expand...
It's not so much the pricetag as the lack of a dedicated manufacturing process - they are build as individual devices, not in series. It might be hard to build even 4 a year without a lot of extra investment.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
If we only have twenty of a bomb, they can't have been cheap.

Had. If we only had twenty.
Click to expand...
We had at least 20 as of 2015. An unspecified number were ordered in 2019, so we certainly had more as of the beginning of this year. Yes, I'm sure they're expensive, and yes, I'm sure it takes a long time to make them. I doubt the cost of the MOPs themselves was a significant factor in this decision. Given the extreme specialization of this weapon, I don't think inventory or production limits were a significant factor either. This is the sort of job it was specifically designed for, it's not any use for most missions, using it for this mission just makes sense.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
That's where the goalposts are now? How much cash did this boondoggle blow through? If we only have twenty of a bomb, they can't have been cheap.

Had. If we only had twenty.
Click to expand...
I'll never understand this half-assed calculus.

The cost of Iran having nuclear weapons is bound to be much higher than the cost of preventing them from having nuclear weapons.

Also I doubt there's more than twenty targets in the world at any one time, for which this bomb makes sense. Why build more than we need?
 
Ziggurat said:
We had at least 20 as of 2015. An unspecified number were ordered in 2019, so we certainly had more as of the beginning of this year. Yes, I'm sure they're expensive, and yes, I'm sure it takes a long time to make them. I doubt the cost of the MOPs themselves was a significant factor in this decision. Given the extreme specialization of this weapon, I don't think inventory or production limits were a significant factor either. This is the sort of job it was specifically designed for, it's not any use for most missions, using it for this mission just makes sense.
Click to expand...
Per wiki:

At least 20 of the bombs were built and delivered to the USAF by November 2015.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-57A/B_MOP#cite_note-23"><span>[</span>23<span>]</span></a> In April 2019, Boeing received a $21 million contract modification for production of more bombs.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-57A/B_MOP#cite_note-24"><span>[</span>24<span>]</span></a> In October 2019, the USAF awarded $90 million in contracts for the production of an unspecified number of case assemblies for the BLU-127C/B warhead to be used in the bomb.

So its not public information how many the USAF has in 2025, and its hard to determine the price per bomb. But the incremental cost of a 2,000 lb Mark 84 is $16,000. A JDAM guidance kit costs another $21,000.

$16,000 * 15 (cause its 15 times bigger) = $240,000. Its a low production item so multiply it times 4. I can't see why the guidance system would cost 15 times more. Probably about a million a pop, a sum that for the USA is tiny.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
It's not so much the pricetag as the lack of a dedicated manufacturing process - they are build as individual devices, not in series. It might be hard to build even 4 a year without a lot of extra investment.
Click to expand...
Counterpoint: It's waaay harder to build 4 new high-value hardened targets a year.

But I am open to your proposal that the US should run off immense batches of rarely-needed munitions, just to realize economies of scale.
 
I posted this in the Trump thread already, but it can go here as well...
MSNBC is reporting Trump has announced a ceasefire between Israel and Iran.
And as I said there, if this is real or just something Trump thinks he can speak into existence remains to be seen.
 
Meanwhile, who overthrew the elected government of Iran and installed the Shah? Was this not the first major incident between the two nations? Who was the aggressor and what was the motivation?

Elsewhere and only a couple of years earlier, how did Palestine change from a 5% Jewish population to that of millions in the space of only a few years? Did Palestine have a say, or were they and surrounding nations clear about their objection at the time? Would such an action be legal under international law today? (Hint: no).

By what right was Palestine chosen as a place for mass forced migration? A legal one? Land ownership? Sovereign claim? Or... as was and is the case, on the basis of religious doctrine? Has that doctrine led to current aggression today in Judea and Samaria, oh, sorry the West Bank? How is this different from the claims of ISIS?

What impact did colonial aggression and violence in support of naked corporate interest have? Did it form the foundation for the enmity that has grown since? What impact is an ongoing genocide having on regional geopolitics?

Who, today, is calling for regime change as a policy? Is that legal? How would that be best characterized under international law? Is not that very same state actor staking claim to Panama, Greenland, and Canada, by force if needed?

The answers to these questions, when informed by texts and writings of those times and these, actual population and land ownership statistics, and other past and contemporary evidence clearly indicates that the West, and its client Israel, are the original and still current aggressors in the region, the fons-et-origo of Middle East and regional unrest. The Axis of Evil, if you must think in those simple terms. (OK, as you insist.)

This is too much for supporters of Israeli and American aggression to handle without resorting to whataboutism and rank denialism, snapping immediately back to "But yesterday this happened, so I can conduct a holy war, I am in the right, God loves me, not those heathens!"

Truth is, the blinders are on, the whip is being applied, the drugs injected, and the horsey is madly a-gallop. Such a good little horsey. Likes being ridden.

***
Theists posing in atheist drag is something I thought I'd never see. That's one kind of trans that ought to be against the law.
 
Last edited:
Honestly this whole thing seems to be going pretty well. Highly effective strikes by the US and Israel. In addition to the high-value hits on Iranian leadership and their uranium enrichment facilities, it seems Israel also went after Iran's long-range missile stockpile, taking those weapons largely off the table at least temporarily.

This probably explains why Iran's response to the US strikes has been so anemic. Meanwhile Israel continues its decapitation program, among other targets of opportunity, such as the gates of Iran's main political prison, and the headquarters of the IGRC.
 
theprestige said:
I confess I'm completely ignorant of your precepts of quote just war unquote. Please elucidate.
Click to expand...
Funny, because I've told you, directly and personally, on several occasions. But I'm more than happy to do so again.

The only just war is one of defence of the homeland against a foreign aggressor.

theprestige said:
Meanwhile, I'll assume you approve of Iran being denied nuclear weapons production by any means necessary.
Click to expand...
Would you like to reconsider this assumption given the above?
 
arthwollipot said:
Funny, because I've told you, directly and personally, on several occasions.
Click to expand...

Why are you surprised? You have been here way longer than me.

arthwollipot said:
But I'm more than happy to do so again.
Click to expand...

Why?

arthwollipot said:
The only just war is one of defence of the homeland against a foreign aggressor.
Click to expand...

(y)

arthwollipot said:
Would you like to reconsider this assumption given the above?
Click to expand...

Naivety taken to this extreme borders on slow.


----------

eta: TLDR: You're being spoken at, not spoken to. If you're happy to engage on, and on and on and on, on those performative terms, then cool, that's up to you, no reason why not.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom