Ed Israel/US Attacks Iran /Yet Another Country/Iran

[Hercules56]

Stop lying. Israel does not target civilians, and you know it.

Dozens of children killed in Iran. Were they nuclear scientists or Revolutionary Guard general??

Either Israel is targeting civilians or they have terrible aim.

 

[Hercules56]

Assassinating the enemy head of state during a war is not terrorism. I'm pretty sure we've been over this before...

Cool, then I hope Iran does the world a HUGE favor and takes out the head of Israeli command & control.

 

[theprestige]

Cool, then I hope Iran does the world a HUGE favor and takes out the head of Israeli command & control.

Yes, you've made it abundantly clear that you're on Iran's side.

 

[angrysoba]

One thing that I had wondered was whether the Israeli planes had had US assistance with mid-air refueling. Apparently Israel has some older tankers of their own, but not so many given the number of ground attack planes that were used.

Anyway, it seems there are now a LOT of US tankers flying out from the US.

Some say it is just part of a European drill, but others think there are far too many for that to make sense.

What other possibilities could there be? Helping Israel to refuel their planes...

OR... there will be B2 bombers out of Diego Garcia to bomb the nuclear facilities?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1934433746511659172

 

[The Great Zaganza]

By the metric that Iran derecognised the state of Israel in 1979 and has repeatedly stated its policy of Israel's destruction.

Motives, not means.
Unlike Israel, that wants to destroy Iran's ability to defend itself and its government, and is actively doing it, has been for years through assassinations.
There is nothing Iran has done to Israel that Israel hasn't done to Iran and then some.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

SAM sites can be in residential neighborhoods. Military leaders could be targeted in their homes. Missiles malfunction, or can be intercepted. Intel can be faulty.

Will you grant the same to Iran?

 

[Roger Ramjets]

*SIGH* Like everything else, all that Trump touches turns to feces.

Does this really have anything to do with Trump? I hear the US vetoed Israel's plan to to assassinate Ali Khamenei. Not sure why Israel would heed that, perhaps the US does have some influence after all. But this day was coming no matter who the US president was. I doubt it would have been much different under Biden.

Netanyahu urged the Iranian people to rise up and overthrow their country's leadership. What is he smoking? In a recent poll, 61% of Iranians were in favor of a nuclear agreement and believed Iran should negotiate with the West. 68% wanted to normalize relations with the US. Netanyahu just scuttled that. Coincidence, or on purpose?

OTOH only 25% of Iranians supported normalizing relations with Israel, with 67% opposed. They many not like how their government has been handling it (78% think its foreign policy is a big cause of their economic problems), but Netanyahu just proved that Iran was right to treat Israel as an existential threat. I predict more support for their government than attempts to overthrow it.

 

[Explorer]

You are being willfully ignorant. You know damn well that contrary to international law Hamas uses civilian infrastructure to shield military infrastructure. Under international law that infrastructure becomes lawful military target. Even so, Israel goes to historically unprecedented lengths to minimize civilian casualties when attacking these targets. And despite Hamas’s unprecedented attempts to MAXIMIZE fatalities among its own civilian population for propaganda purposes, Israel has achieved the lowest civilian-to-military fatality ratio in the history of urban warfare.

Time to stop lying, Arth.

There are several factors in the ratio of civilian deaths to combatant death, including one crucial unknown.

I am not querying the published ratio per se, but I do have to ask a couple of questions before I am impressed with that ratio.

Firstly, is the number of combatants to start with high anyway, compared to the entire population of Gaza? I have no idea. How do the stats know who are combatants and who are innocent civilians when apparently, there are no uniforms worn by Hamas, and no on the ground clarification/identification from neutral observers, provided to the individuals who compile those stats?

What we do know from independent reports, is that there is an over representation in the 50,000 Gazian deaths of women and children, and those are far easier to indentify.

I look at Gaza today, and it has almost been totally flattened, so does this mean that Hamas just kept moving from one standing building to another and Israeli jets knew which one they had moved on to, and this became the next target? If this is true, and I am not saying that it isn't, it begs another question. Where does the intelligence on the ground come from so effectively and efficiently? If I was Hamas, I might be thinking by now, that it is full of traitorous insider informers.

A neutral might say that the total destruction of buildings in the built up areas of Gaza, suggests that the targeting is not really targeting at all over the two years of the attacks, but more blanket bombing by stealth to make any re-rehabilitation of the Gazean population less likely to happen under its own future steam and efforts.

The optics do look like this, and it is hard to see it any other way, but hey, I am willing to be convinced otherwise, because the thought of one country doing this to another population on its own doorstep, is not very digestible.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

On a side note: at least Iranians have some shelters

Does this really have anything to do with Trump? I hear the US vetoed Israel's plan to to assassinate Ali Khamenei. Not sure why Israel would heed that, perhaps the US does have some influence after all. But this day was coming no matter who the US president was. I doubt it would have been much different under Biden.

Netanyahu urged the Iranian people to rise up and overthrow their country's leadership. What is he smoking? In a recent poll, 61% of Iranians were in favor of a nuclear agreement and believed Iran should negotiate with the West. 68% wanted to normalize relations with the US. Netanyahu just scuttled that. Coincidence, or on purpose?

OTOH only 25% of Iranians supported normalizing relations with Israel, with 67% opposed. They many not like how their government has been handling it (78% think its foreign policy is a big cause of their economic problems), but Netanyahu just proved that Iran was right to treat Israel as an existential threat. I predict more support for their government than attempts to overthrow it.

yes, this has everything to do with Trump - and Biden.

In every conflict in the past involving Israel and its neighbours, it has been the US using its diplomatic, economic and military power to put its foot down and bring the parties to the table or at least back to a state of ceasefire.
Many Israeli politicians and commentators have voiced their surprise that Biden didn't stop Netanyahu after the first or second round of brutal retaliation after October 7th. They fully expected to be told to Stand Down, which would have given them the excuse of stopping the fight and blame it on the US instead of having to take the blame themselves.
Both Biden and Trump managed to force Israel to accept a temporary ceasefire and hostage exchange despite a total rejection by the Israeli leadership.

Now we hear that Trump had the Final Say on who got to be on Israel's hitlist of Iranian, which means that he could just has said: None.

From the Start, Israel has depended on the US to reign it in, and the US has done nothing but giving it more rope to hang itself through Mission Creep.
a True Friend of Israel would have told it to stop and negotiate long ago.

 

[arthwollipot]

You are being willfully ignorant. You know damn well that contrary to international law Hamas uses civilian infrastructure to shield military infrastructure. Under international law that infrastructure becomes lawful military target. Even so, Israel goes to historically unprecedented lengths to minimize civilian casualties when attacking these targets. And despite Hamas’s unprecedented attempts to MAXIMIZE fatalities among its own civilian population for propaganda purposes, Israel has achieved the lowest civilian-to-military fatality ratio in the history of urban warfare.

Time to stop lying, Arth.

I'm not the one lying. Israel does absolutely ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ nothing to minimise civilian casualties. Human shields? Sure, we'll kill hundreds if it means we achieve a strategic objective. Israel doesn't care about Palestinian casualties. Palestinians are nothing to Israel. Less than nothing. These is the government that you support, blindly and unconditionally.

Hamas has a policy of using human shields, despite the obvious fact that Israel doesn't care about killing civilians. Israel has a policy of exterminating Palestinians, despite the obvious fact that all this is doing is further radicalising those that remain. Both sides are horrifically evil, but only one side has a body count of over 44,000 civilians. Forty four thousand civilians dead at the order of Netanyahu. Forty four thousand. Think about that number for a moment. Hamas killed a little over eight hundred civilians on 7th October, and took a hundred and fifty hostage. Forty four thousand in response to eight hundred.

This, to you, is just? This, to you, is appropriate? This is what you support with your every breath?

 

[Hlafordlaes]

Zionists: Read it and weep (link is to a post here on this same board). Your ideology is being put on naked display for your shame. Much more is available, much more, historical recorded fact you'll have to either cut and run from, refusing to address or argue on the points, or stand down.

 

[Hercules56]

Yes, you've made it abundantly clear that you're on Iran's side.

No, i just hate racist fascists like Bibi the Butcher. I am not on Iran's side.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm not the one lying. Israel does absolutely ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ nothing to minimise civilian casualties. Human shields? Sure, we'll kill hundreds if it means we achieve a strategic objective.

That happens in war. Israel didn't start the war, Hamas did.

Israel doesn't care about Palestinian casualties.

Why should it? Out of the kindness of its heart? War doesn't work like that.

Hamas has a policy of using human shields, despite the obvious fact that Israel doesn't care about killing civilians.

Indeed. Consider for a moment what that says about Hamas, and their opinion of Palestinian casualties.

Israel has a policy of exterminating Palestinians

No, it clearly doesn't. If it actually did, there would be a lot more dead Palestinians.

Both sides are horrifically evil,

Ah yes, the token criticism of Hamas. Your heart clearly isn't in it, though.

but only one side has a body count of over 44,000 civilians. Forty four thousand civilians dead at the order of Netanyahu. Forty four thousand. Think about that number for a moment.

I have. You clearly have not. So do a little thinking for a moment: where does this number come from? It comes from Hamas.

Why do you believe Hamas?

Hamas killed a little over eight hundred civilians on 7th October, and took a hundred and fifty hostage. Forty four thousand in response to eight hundred.

And 2,400 Americans died in Pearl Harbor, in response to which we killed more than a million Japanese. Or when the Confederacy took Fort Sumter with zero dead, we killed around 250,000 in response.

It's completely stupid to compare total casualties in war to the event that precipitated the conflict. And that's if you're using actually accurate numbers. Which there's no reason to believe you are.

 

[Hercules56]

That happens in war. Israel didn't start the war, Hamas did..

No, the immoral terrorist blockade on Gaza started the war.

 

[theprestige]

No, i just hate racist fascists like Bibi the Butcher. I am not on Iran's side.

Thanks for reminding me: You *do* think assassinating enemy heads of state during wartime is unacceptable terrorism. You tried to setup a gotcha where pro-Israel folks would accidentally be in favor of hitting the head of Iran, but against hitting the head of Israel. Instead, you got blindsided by morally consistent replies that it's not terrorism, and that what's fair for one side in a war is fair for the other. This failure of your clever ruse has forced you to fall back on the morally inconsistent position that it's terrorism, but you'll allow it in Israel's case because reasons*.

The reasons, of course, being that the Jew is a special kind of evil.

 

[Hercules56]

Thanks for reminding me: You *do* think assassinating enemy heads of state during wartime is unacceptable terrorism. You tried to setup a gotcha where pro-Israel folks would accidentally be in favor of hitting the head of Iran, but against hitting the head of Israel. Instead, you got blindsided by morally consistent replies that it's not terrorism, and that what's fair for one side in a war is fair for the other. This failure of your clever ruse has forced you to fall back on the morally inconsistent position that it's terrorism, but you'll allow it in Israel's case because reasons*.

The reasons, of course, being that the Jew is a special kind of evil.

Please don't post such disgusting anti-semitics hate speech.

 

[Ziggurat]

I look at Gaza today, and it has almost been totally flattened

I got curious about this, so I went to Google Maps and started poking around with their satellite images. And I gotta say, what I'm finding doesn't support this claim. I mean, there's definitely a lot of damage. Some areas are flattened. For example, the area Al Mughraqa looks pretty leveled. But the area Maghazi looks almost untouched. Nor is Maghazi alone in that regard. Play around on Google Maps, you'll find plenty of places that match both of the above.

Gaza has absolutely seen a lot of damage, and some areas have been flattened. But the claim that it's almost totally flattened doesn't match what I can find myself. Now, I'm not sure exactly what the date on those images are. But Google is claiming copyright 2025, so they can't be more than a few months old. And nothing in the news suggests to me that all that much has changed since the start of 2025 and now. So if you think it's been totally flattened, I have to ask, where are you getting that from? Because that's not what I see when I try to find out for myself.

 

[Ziggurat]

No, i just hate racist fascists like Bibi the Butcher. I am not on Iran's side.

That's your excuse for why you want Iran to win. But the fact remains, you want Iran to win.

 

[theprestige]

Please don't post such disgusting anti-semitics hate speech.

Please don't take such disgusting, functionally anti-semitic positions.

The same Iranian regime has been sponsoring terrorist attacks on Israel for decades. But this has not inflamed your ire. Only when the Jew fights back, and effectively, do you suddenly start calling for the extrajudicial execution of a head of state.

You say you're not on Iran's side, but that's exactly where all of your rhetoric leads.

 

[Hercules56]

That's your excuse for why you want Iran to win. But the fact remains, you want Iran to win.

I dont want Iran to win, stop lying about my beliefs.