Merged Due process in the US

[dirtywick]

People found not guilty are also indicted by grand juries.

this statement should be the end of this nonsense argument that his indictment indicates anything. but it won’t be.

i asked several times if hercules felt this admin has the credibility to bring these kinds of charges against this particular individual. naturally he avoided answering and took easier questions. that he also continues to say foolish things in response to.

but i think his statements make it clear that he does think the prosecution has the credibility to do this, despite their previous egregious and illegal conduct regarding the treatment of garcia.

their bad press is more important than a real persons life. every normal person in the country should be opposed to this.

 

[Aridas]

this statement should be the end of this nonsense argument that his indictment indicates anything. but it won’t be.

Indeed, it's yet another very valid should. Hercules56 hasn't been particularly interested in such shoulds, though, and very interested in imagining that there's ironclad evidence, despite the numerous and strong reasons not to presume such, including that some of the claims/charges are rather directly contradicted by the evidence that they've invoked, IIRC. That's the kind of thing that normally earns a mocking from reasonable observers, not proclamations of how much that proves that they're bad news. As ever, it's possible that there is such ironclad evidence, but presuming such is quite unreasonable and has been all along.

i asked several times if hercules felt this admin has the credibility to bring these kinds of charges against this particular individual.

That specific question is a bit off, though. They certainly have the right to bring charges against whoever. More generally, the American legal system is somewhat famous for allowing nonsensically frivolous charges to be brought. Credibility only really comes into play when it comes to whether we should trust them. The Administration's proven beyond reasonable doubt that we should not trust their claims, but that doesn't automatically mean that everything they claim is necessarily false, just that too much is to trust it based on their credibility.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I think we are dealing with MAGA that desperately needs The Regime to give lies to their authoritarian actions. When The Regime admitted that they made a mistake and did something illegal, that was to be disagreed with. If, however, The Regime tells lies to do the same illegal acts, then those lies are to be taken as fact so that it can be claimed to be legal.

 

[dirtywick]

Indeed, it's yet another very valid should. Hercules56 hasn't been particularly interested in such shoulds, though, and very interested in imagining that there's ironclad evidence, despite the numerous and strong reasons not to presume such, including that some of the claims/charges are rather directly contradicted by the evidence that they've invoked, IIRC. That's the kind of thing that normally earns a mocking from reasonable observers, not proclamations of how much that proves that they're bad news. As ever, it's possible that there is such ironclad evidence, but presuming such is quite unreasonable and has been all along.



That specific question is a bit off, though. They certainly have the right to bring charges against whoever. More generally, the American legal system is somewhat famous for allowing nonsensically frivolous charges to be brought. Credibility only really comes into play when it comes to whether we should trust them. The Administration's proven beyond reasonable doubt that we should not trust their claims, but that doesn't automatically mean that everything they claim is necessarily false, just that too much is to trust it based on their credibility.

i agree and that’s the point i’m making. nobody should trust any claims made by the government against garcia due to the fact that they don’t have any credibility. including all the weak evidence hercules keeps citing to justify his ridiculous stance on this issue.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Yes. With Garcia, it was "deport first" and then find/create evidence and charges later. This is the case with many, if not most, of the deportations and arrests happening now and have happened since The Regime came into power.

 

[bruto]

Well, it's true if you take every incident as unconnected to every other, which is the common way that the cumulative insults of racism and discrimination and police abuse and profiling are trivialized, then sure, there's a chance that this time it's all being done right. I mean, the fact that the people in charge are lying fascists willing to fake evidence, deny their own actions, break laws, corrupt, coerce and blackmail everyone in sight and threaten to fire those they can't...well, sure, but since we don't know what they did, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt this time.

 

[Thermal]

This discussion is disturbing. I am starting to question some of my long-held assumptions -- yes, assumptions about myself.

Let me ask openly the inner question that perturbs me so much:
Am I, could I be,

Bad News?

The new ISF logo:

 

[dirtywick]

Well, it's true if you take every incident as unconnected to every other, which is the common way that the cumulative insults of racism and discrimination and police abuse and profiling are trivialized, then sure, there's a chance that this time it's all being done right. I mean, the fact that the people in charge are lying fascists willing to fake evidence, deny their own actions, break laws, corrupt, coerce and blackmail everyone in sight and threaten to fire those they can't...well, sure, but since we don't know what they did, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt this time.

i agree, i don't really believe in do-overs when it comes to this kind of stuff.

 

[arthwollipot]

Okay, I was wrong. He has not been found guilty of any crime and it was a mistake for me to assume that he was guilty.

That's not too hard, is it? It's okay to admit error.

 

[Thermal]

Agreed, that's why I didn't vote for them and protested against them in 2017.

Here's my sign:

Fan of Bill Engvall?

 

[The Don]

Okay, I was wrong. He has not been found guilty of any crime and it was a mistake for me to assume that he was guilty.

That's not too hard, is it? It's okay to admit error.

Maybe not for you, but that isn't necessarily the case for all posters.

 

[dirtywick]

Tensions over L.A. immigration sweeps boil over as Padilla is tackled, ICE arrests pick up

Federal immigration sweeps have spread fear and uncertainty across the region and forced some into hiding.

www.latimes.com

this could go in any number of threads but as the trump admin continues to abuse their power and target political enemies in escalating ways and in this case a senator for asking questions at a press conference of the agency that continues their constitutional violations of immigrant rights, i wonder how much more comical the thought that they can be trusted to treat immigrants fairly could possibly become.

tell me more about these home depot ms13 traffickers

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Tensions over L.A. immigration sweeps boil over as Padilla is tackled, ICE arrests pick up

Federal immigration sweeps have spread fear and uncertainty across the region and forced some into hiding.

www.latimes.com

this could go in any number of threads but as the trump admin continues to abuse their power and target political enemies in escalating ways and in this case a senator for asking questions at a press conference of the agency that continues their constitutional violations of immigrant rights, i wonder how much more comical the thought that they can be trusted to treat immigrants fairly could possibly become.

tell me more about these home depot ms13 traffickers

"Well, my main career is in the million dollar drug cartel, but I do a bit of day labouring on building sites for fun"

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Was Garcia hanging out with MS-13 members ? I think that is unproven.

The term "hanging out" implies to me that they were mixing socially. In the case of Garcia the motivation appears to be the search for work.

Because of the nature of my workplace, I am far more likely to have "hung out" with a serious criminal than Señor Abrego Garcia.

 

[Thermal]

Or, the Grand Jury was easily convinced by the ironclad evidence presented.

"Ironclad"? From what little we know about the actual evidence, the prosecutors are outright lying (claimed Garcia didn't disclose that he was coming from Texas when it is right at the very beginning of the police report that he said so).

When you know a prosecutor is lying to your face, in black and white right in front of you, 'ironclad evidence' shouldn't be a phrase that springs to mind.

 

[Hercules56]

"Ironclad"? From what little we know about the actual evidence, the prosecutors are outright lying (claimed Garcia didn't disclose that he was coming from Texas when it is right at the very beginning of the police report that he said so).

When you know a prosecutor is lying to your face, in black and white right in front of you, 'ironclad evidence' shouldn't be a phrase that springs to mind.

How would the Grand Jury know the prosecutor was lying to their faces?

And if they did know, why did they approve the indictment?

Your speculation makes no sense.

 

[I Am The Scum]

How would the Grand Jury know the prosecutor was lying to their faces?

And if they did know, why did they approve the indictment?

Your speculation makes no sense.

They wouldn't know. That's the point.

 

[Hercules56]

They wouldn't know. That's the point.

Thermal implied they would know.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Thermal implied they would know.

When he said, "When you know a prosecutor is lying to your face," he was referencing your face, Hercules.

 

[Thermal]

Thermal implied they would know.

I said YOU, not the grand jury. YOU are the one who declared the unknown evidence to be 'ironclad'.

{eta removed, needlessly condescending}