Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Vixen]

One thing I have to give to guilters is that they are completely shameless in their hypocrisy. They accuse C&V of of being dishonest whilst slavishly supporting Stefanoni who lied as I pointed out in my post. In addition, Vixen as per the list below has told lies about the knife

Post dated 10.05.2016

Claim: Only one was of sufficient quality to produce a near full profile (15 alleles : legal standard UK =10) of the murder victim, Mez.

Truth: The prosecution never claimed there were 15 alleles on the knife.

Post dated 11.05.2016

The defence on all sides have agreed without challenge that the DNA on the knife did indeed yield a near perfect profile of Mez.

Truth: The defence teams have never accepted there was a full DNA profile of Meredith on the knife and there is no record of this.

Post dated 22.03.2016

Claim: Stefanoni found 12 bits of tissue on the blade.

Truth: Stefanoni found no such tissue on the blade and the prosecution have never claimed there was any human biological material on the blade. When C&V tested the knife it was negative for the human species.

Guilters attack Amanda for falsely accusing Lumumba of a crime but make false allegations Hellman was bribed. Guilters attack Amanda for lying and then spread malicious lies about people.

Citation, please, of the 'twelve bits of tissue'.

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[Vixen]

Move those goalposts! You claimed that "Knox only switching hers back on midday next day, ringing just one of Mez' phones." Now you move the goalpost to "before ringing Filomena." Immediately after ringing Filomena, Knox call Kercher's IT phone, so she did not ring "just one of Meredith's phones". Phone log fact.

So WHAT if she didn't remember exactly when she called her mother or exactly what she said to her in those 3 phone calls among so many that day? How is that evidence of murder?

This is your habitual "Knox and Sollecito must have a 100% perfect memory with no consideration for the chaos of that day or being traumatized, confused, stressed, and overwhelmed. If their memory isn't perfect with all the details or if they deviate by 0.05%, then you accuse them of lying.

But if Stefanoni 'forgets' to mention the multiple, critical negative TMB blood results? That's just fine.

It's OK if Stefanoni only reports Kercher's and Sollecito's DNA was on the bra hook when, in fact, there was DNA of two other men.

It's OK if Ficarra, Zugarini, or Raffo wrongly paraphrased Knox's text reply to Lumumba in the Nov. 5/6 deposition as "Ho riposto al messaggio dicendogli che ci saremmo visti subito," which means "I replied to his message saying I would see him immediately." That gives the distinct impression Knox was meeting Lumumba that night when she didn't.

It's OK that Stefanoni lied in court in 2011 when she said, "We never touched the bra clasp without using tweezers," and then "OK. We may have touched it, but only with clean gloves," both of which are beautifully disproved by the police video showing no tweezers were used and the clasp being picked up, dropped, and passed around by visibly dirty and admittedly unchanged gloves.


You've written some crazy, outlandish things before, but this takes the prize. You've actually convinced yourself that her mother and his father think they're guilty. Are you really that desperate? Apparently so.

Why else would Francesco agree to tell police he rang his son at 8:40 and RS confirmed the dinner and washing up 'flooding' had occurred before then. In addition, RS did not answer his regular 11:00pm phone call and has never explained why he gave police a false alibi for the entre evening, night and morning. We have never had an explanation from RS as to why his footprint in the victim's blood is firmly on the bathmat and DNA on the bathroom light switch blood stain mixed with AK's. All we have had in explanation is an 'Ew' from Knox describing how disgusting she found Mez' blood. Her 'friend'.



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[Vixen]

Still waiting for Vixen to quote and cite the evidence that 36 B had a "full 15 allele profile" of Kercher.

But we all know it's never coming.

See previous pages, where the near-full DNA profile of Mez is graphed.


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[Myriad]

There is zero evidence Stefanoni did anything wrong. It is pure hatred from AK and RS because they were convicted by her objective scientific forensic evidence, with Valter Patumi there as RS' expert witness for the knife and Prof Torre for the bra clasp. Everything was done by the book, and to legal standards. Peter Gill never had access to the original material, he simply borrowed from the unprincipled C&V and was never cross-examined nor his views tested. Of course the defence is going to try and cast doubt on it. It is par for the course. Kohberger's defence is doing all of that doubt stuff for Kohberger; it is what the defence is hired to do. It is the court that ultimately decides the verdict.

The court case is over. What the defense said and why doesn't matter any more. What matters now is what history says about Stefanoni's incompetent and dishonest work on the case. There are plenty of historical facts about that, for people interested in history to judge from.

 

[TruthCalls]

Given Knox was supposedly worried about her 'friend', why only ring the one. Obviously, Knox knew the two had been removed from Mez' possession so if no-one answered one, no need to bother with the other, except as a cursory exercise. Think about it. She could have put her ear to Mez' door to hear if it rang.


How cruel is that, removing Mez' phones to stop her from calling for help or saying goodbye to her mother.

My God, it's amazing how you know what everyone else was thinking, you should seek out employment in a traveling circus! Also interesting how you always manage to conjure up a guilty laden narrative to everything, though you screwed up with this one. According to you, they're brilliant mastermind criminals.. so they should have known they needed to ring both.. you know, to fool master sleuths such as yourself. And hey, yeah, good point. Hell, Amanda could have also put her ear to the floor to see if she could hear her walking or, better yet, maybe she was trapped downstairs calling for help!

Oh, stop being so melodramatic. Meredith had passed long before Guede threw her phones into Lana's garden. But honestly, that pales to the cruelty he displayed when he sexually assaulted Meredith before stabbing her multiple times in the neck, but I don't see you going on about that.

 

[Vixen]

The court case is over. What the defense said and why doesn't matter any more. What matters now is what history says about Stefanoni's incompetent and dishonest work on the case. There are plenty of historical facts about that, for people interested in history to judge from.

Perhaps explain how Stefanoni 'fiddled' the results in front of Patumi and Torre. Given the results are by computer, that would be an amazing achievement and in addition, she would need a motive to do so.

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[Vixen]

My God, it's amazing how you know what everyone else was thinking, you should seek out employment in a traveling circus! Also interesting how you always manage to conjure up a guilty laden narrative to everything, though you screwed up with this one. According to you, they're brilliant mastermind criminals.. so they should have known they needed to ring both.. you know, to fool master sleuths such as yourself. And hey, yeah, good point. Hell, Amanda could have also put her ear to the floor to see if she could hear her walking or, better yet, maybe she was trapped downstairs calling for help!

Oh, stop being so melodramatic. Meredith had passed long before Guede threw her phones into Lana's garden. But honestly, that pales to the cruelty he displayed when he sexually assaulted Meredith before stabbing her multiple times in the neck, but I don't see you going on about that.

RG isn't running an innocence campaign. He did the time, he hasn't claimed the prosecutors fixed it.



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[Myriad]

Perhaps explain how Stefanoni 'fiddled' the results in front of Patumi and Torre. Given the results are by computer, that would be an amazing achievement and in addition, she would need a motive to do so.

Who cares? Like many incompetent people, she's probably highly competent at concealing her incompetence. Too bad for her that she ended up involved in a high-profile case that exposed it.

 

[Myriad]

RG isn't running an innocence campaign. He did the time, he hasn't claimed the prosecutors fixed it.

No one is running an innocence campaign. The court case is over. Guede is a murderer. Not (just) a "convicted" murderer, someone who lost a court case. (Because we're now talking about history, not jurisprudence.) An actual murderer who murdered someone. AK and RS are not. Not (just) "not convicted" murderers, who won a court case. (Because we're now talking about history, not jurisprudence.) Actual people who actually never murdered anyone.

 

[Vixen]

No one is running an innocence campaign. The court case is over. Guede is a murderer. Not (just) a "convicted" murderer, someone who lost a court case. (Because we're now talking about history, not jurisprudence.) An actual murderer who murdered someone. AK and RS are not. Not (just) "not convicted" murderers, who won a court case. (Because we're now talking about history, not jurisprudence.) Actual people who actually never murdered anyone.

Yes and history tells us that Knox was, with 'absolute certainty', at the scene and did wash off Mez' blood from her hands, and did cover up for Guede, cunningly naming Lumumba in his place, ruining his family life in Perugia and the burglary was faked. Imagine being there and not lifting a finger to fetch help for your 'friend'. Imagine also returning to the dead body of your friend to mess with it.

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[AmyStrange]

Move those goalposts! You claimed that "Knox only switching hers back on midday next day, ringing just one of Mez' phones." Now you move the goalpost to "before ringing Filomena." Immediately after ringing Filomena, Knox call Kercher's IT phone, so she did not ring "just one of Meredith's phones". Phone log fact.

So WHAT if she didn't remember exactly when she called her mother or exactly what she said to her in those 3 phone calls among so many that day? How is that evidence of murder?

This is your habitual "Knox and Sollecito must have a 100% perfect memory with no consideration for the chaos of that day or being traumatized, confused, stressed, and overwhelmed. If their memory isn't perfect with all the details or if they deviate by 0.05%, then you accuse them of lying.

But if Stefanoni 'forgets' to mention the multiple, critical negative TMB blood results? That's just fine.

It's OK if Stefanoni only reports Kercher's and Sollecito's DNA was on the bra hook when, in fact, there was DNA of two other men.

It's OK if Ficarra, Zugarini, or Raffo wrongly paraphrased Knox's text reply to Lumumba in the Nov. 5/6 deposition as "Ho riposto al messaggio dicendogli che ci saremmo visti subito," which means "I replied to his message saying I would see him immediately." That gives the distinct impression Knox was meeting Lumumba that night when she didn't.

It's OK that Stefanoni lied in court in 2011 when she said, "We never touched the bra clasp without using tweezers," and then "OK. We may have touched it, but only with clean gloves," both of which are beautifully disproved by the police video showing no tweezers were used and the clasp being picked up, dropped, and passed around by visibly dirty and admittedly unchanged gloves.


You've written some crazy, outlandish things before, but this takes the prize. You've actually convinced yourself that her mother and his father think they're guilty. Are you really that desperate? Apparently so.

I wish I could give all of you who continue to support Meredith, Amanda, and Raffaele a dozen thumbs up, especially since all the guilters have is prevaricated fabrications disguised as gibberish.


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[Myriad]

Yes and history tells us that Knox was, with 'absolute certainty', at the scene and did wash off Mez' blood from her hands, and did cover up for Guede, cunningly naming Lumumba in his place, ruining his family life in Perugia and the burglary was faked.

No, it doesn't tell us any of that. Those are "judicial facts" that have something to do with some old court case, which this isn't because the court case is over and we're talking about history.

Imagine being there and not lifting a finger to fetch help for your 'friend'. Imagine also returning to the dead body of your friend to mess with it.

I'll leave the disturbingly violent sadistic imaginings to you.

 

[Stacyhs]

Given Knox was supposedly worried about her 'friend', why only ring the one.

From the phone logs:
Amanda ALWAYS called Meredith on the UK phone so that's why she called that one first.
Between Oct. 1 and Nov. 2:
AK to MK on the UK phone : Eleven times.
AK to MK via FR's phone: ONCE on Nov. 2

MK to AK on the UK phone: Eleven times.
MK to AK on FR's phone: ZERO times.

Knox may even have forgotten MK had another phone as she never called it, but remembered after talking to Filomena.

Obviously, Knox knew the two had been removed from Mez' possession so if no-one answered one, no need to bother with the other, except as a cursory exercise.

Obviously, you're just pulling out another assfact.

If I were trying to give the appearance of really trying to call Meredith to give myself cover, I'd have called BOTH phones one right after the other.

Question: If Knox knew Kercher was dead, then why remove her phones from her bedroom in the first place? It's more logical to leave them and then claim to the police that she called both her phones, can hear them ringing in her bedroom but she's not answering.
On the other hand, it more logical that Guede was planning on fencing them for money, proven phone thief that he was, and then discarded them when he realized they'd link him to the murder.

Think about it. She could have put her ear to Mez' door to hear if it rang.

Because she was not overly worried until she saw the feces and just wanted to get out of the cottage in a hurry. When she made the calls, she had already left the cottage and was at RS's apartment.
When they went back and discovered the break-in, she already knew MK was not answering her phones.

How cruel is that, removing Mez' phones to stop her from calling for help or saying goodbye to her mother.

Sigh. Clutch those pearls! MUST you constantly just make things up? It doesn't help you, especially when you say such histrionic nonsense. In fact, it does quite the opposite.
It's not even a logical claim when you consider that once her throat was cut, she was incapable of getting her phone unless it was already in her hand (which is wasn't) to call 112 or her mother.

 

[Stacyhs]

No, it doesn't tell us any of that. Those are "judicial facts" that have something to do with some old court case, which this isn't because the court case is over and we're talking about history.



I'll leave the disturbingly violent sadistic imaginings to you.

You have to admit that Vixen has a flair for fiction. Why she thinks any of us fall for it, only she knows.

 

[TruthCalls]

There is zero evidence Stefanoni did anything wrong. It is pure hatred from AK and RS because they were convicted by her objective scientific forensic evidence, with Valter Patumi there as RS' expert witness for the knife and Prof Torre for the bra clasp. Everything was done by the book, and to legal standards. Peter Gill never had access to the original material, he simply borrowed from the unprincipled C&V and was never cross-examined nor his views tested. Of course the defence is going to try and cast doubt on it. It is par for the course. Kohberger's defence is doing all of that doubt stuff for Kohberger; it is what the defence is hired to do. It is the court that ultimately decides the verdict.

I don't care who did what... facts are facts. I've provided a list of things that were done wrong, and all you can do is babble on about non sequiturs.

You still want to play this game? Re; Stefanoni;

• Did Stefanoni label 36B as positive for DNA while labeling 36C negative, despite them having identical lab results? - This is not a legal standard, but a LIE.
• Did Stefanoni document performing R/T PCR to quantify 36A-C, despite having used the Q-Bit Fluorometer instead? - Oops, another LIE.
• Did Stefanoni over-amplify the sample? - Yes, so not to forensic standards.
• Did she fail to honor the 50 RFU threshold? - Yes, so not to forensic standards
• Did she only amplify the sample once - Yes, so not to forensic standards

Beyond what Stefanoni did wrong, the knife being removed from the sealed envelope in the police station is a major fail. This certainly was NOT to forensic standards.

But we've been all over this. Stating facts is hardly "pure hatred". Claiming the results were "objective scientific forensic evidence" while failing to acknowledge the numerous failures that should have compelled any non-corrupt court to disqualify the evidence is supremely dishonest.

 

[Stacyhs]

Yes and history tells us that Knox was, with 'absolute certainty', at the scene

Yes, the morning after the murder. Give me ONE indisputable piece of forensic proof that Knox was there that night. Retracted confessions do not count.

and did wash off Mez' blood from her hands,

There is NO scientific evidence of that at all. NO test showed what the source of her DNA was. That was one of Massei's inventions. Apparently, he didn't understand the scientific fact that neither the source of her DNA nor when it was deposited could be confirmed by any test.

and did cover up for Guede, cunningly naming Lumumba in his place

Yeah, covering up for Guede by cunningly removing all her and RS's DNA, prints, etc. from Kercher's room but leaving so damn much evidence of the guy she was covering for! She cunningly pointed out Guede's feces to the police in order to cover for him. Then she cunningly pointed out his bloody footprint on the rug! Yeah, yeah, I know....it was really Sollecito's and instead of removing such damning evidence against him, they decided to leave it to "pull one over" on them.

, ruining his family life in Perugia

You can thank the police for that. Nothing like turning Knox's innocent "Ok, see you later. Good night" into a murder conspiracy of "I replied to his message saying I would see him immediately," and keeping his bar shut for two months after he was completely cleared.
Everyone in Perugia knew within two weeks that he'd been completely cleared and the Italians had nothing but sympathy for him seeing him as a victim of the sex hungry American Foxy Knoxy. They supported him.
His bar opened only two months before he hired Amanda and was not doing well financially. It was small, dark, and the students disliked it. But that 70,000 euros for the Daily Mail "interview" and the 20,000 euros for appearing on an Italian TV show soon after his release hardly ruined him.

and the burglary was faked.

No, it wasn't.

Imagine being there and not lifting a finger to fetch help for your 'friend'. Imagine also returning to the dead body of your friend to mess with it

Imagine sticking to the facts and not just making up crap.

 

[Myriad]

You have to admit that Vixen has a flair for fiction. Why she thinks any of us fall for it, only she knows.

If karma worked as reliably as some people think it does, someday Vixen would be falsely accused of a heinous crime and we could point out to the prosecutors how she posted wishful fantasies online of leaving a mortally injured friend to die and then coming back to abuse the corpse.

That would be closer to the truth than Vixen's repeated accusations that AK wrote "short stories of rapes and killings." I mean, it's right there in the post.

Imagine being there and not lifting a finger to fetch help for your 'friend'. Imagine also returning to the dead body of your friend to mess with it.

 

[Vixen]

From the phone logs:
Amanda ALWAYS called Meredith on the UK phone so that's why she called that one first.
Between Oct. 1 and Nov. 2:
AK to MK on the UK phone : Eleven times.
AK to MK via FR's phone: ONCE on Nov. 2

MK to AK on the UK phone: Eleven times.
MK to AK on FR's phone: ZERO times.

Knox may even have forgotten MK had another phone as she never called it, but remembered after talking to Filomena.

Obviously, you're just pulling out another assfact.

If I were trying to give the appearance of really trying to call Meredith to give myself cover, I'd have called BOTH phones one right after the other.

Question: If Knox knew Kercher was dead, then why remove her phones from her bedroom in the first place? It's more logical to leave them and then claim to the police that she called both her phones, can hear them ringing in her bedroom but she's not answering.
On the other hand, it more logical that Guede was planning on fencing them for money, proven phone thief that he was, and then discarded them when he realized they'd link him to the murder.



Because she was not overly worried until she saw the feces and just wanted to get out of the cottage in a hurry. When she made the calls, she had already left the cottage and was at RS's apartment.
When they went back and discovered the break-in, she already knew MK was not answering her phones.



Sigh. Clutch those pearls! MUST you constantly just make things up? It doesn't help you, especially when you say such histrionic nonsense. In fact, it does quite the opposite.
It's not even a logical claim when you consider that once her throat was cut, she was incapable of getting her phone unless it was already in her hand (which is wasn't) to call 112 or her mother.

For those interested in the truth of the phone logs, here are the accurate details.




Source: Kermit/Raper

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[Vixen]

I don't care who did what... facts are facts. I've provided a list of things that were done wrong, and all you can do is babble on about non sequiturs.

You still want to play this game? Re; Stefanoni;

• Did Stefanoni label 36B as positive for DNA while labeling 36C negative, despite them having identical lab results? - This is not a legal standard, but a LIE.
• Did Stefanoni document performing R/T PCR to quantify 36A-C, despite having used the Q-Bit Fluorometer instead? - Oops, another LIE.
• Did Stefanoni over-amplify the sample? - Yes, so not to forensic standards.
• Did she fail to honor the 50 RFU threshold? - Yes, so not to forensic standards
• Did she only amplify the sample once - Yes, so not to forensic standards

Beyond what Stefanoni did wrong, the knife being removed from the sealed envelope in the police station is a major fail. This certainly was NOT to forensic standards.

But we've been all over this. Stating facts is hardly "pure hatred". Claiming the results were "objective scientific forensic evidence" while failing to acknowledge the numerous failures that should have compelled any non-corrupt court to disqualify the evidence is supremely dishonest.

Italian CPP Art 360 makes it statutory for a potential one-off piece of forensic evidence to be tested and it is obligatory to invite all of the parties to the proceedings to have their own appointed expert forensic scientist to witness this. The rationale behind this edict is that in a serious crime, a criminal doesn't get away with the criminal act by dint of having thoroughly washed the crime scene to obliterate any evidence of themself. If all that is left after scrubbing the suspect kitchen knife murder weapon is a small aount of organic material, then yes, criminal law does allow for it to be tested. As a Low Copy Number (LCN) often there is only sufficient quantity to do a one-off testing. The claim the sample must be large and testable several times does not apply in criminal law forensics. In addition, high RFU's are more commonly associated with blood samples. In the case of Mez, the blood having been negated by presumed scrubbing with bleach (which dishwasher tablets also contain) meant the substance which C&V dishonestly tried to claim was food starch or bread grain, whilst not being blood, still revealed the human organic presence of Mez, as identified by her DNA profile.



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[Vixen]

If karma worked as reliably as some people think it does, someday Vixen would be falsely accused of a heinous crime and we could point out to the prosecutors how she posted wishful fantasies online of leaving a mortally injured friend to die and then coming back to abuse the corpse.

That would be closer to the truth than Vixen's repeated accusations that AK wrote "short stories of rapes and killings." I mean, it's right there in the post.

Honestly, this is like trying to argue with someone who believes in Santa Claus. Far from objectively looking at facts, we have 'the last chance saloon of a scoundrel' type argument, with a three-in-one package of the Ultimate Logical Fallacy thrown in. We have the ad hominem-cum-tu quoque-cum-faux equivalence all bunged in together! I admire you, Myriad. I really do! So, if one were to discuss Ted Bundy, say, anyone arguing for his guilt (confessed or otherwise) why, such a person is just like Bundy themself! My, my. Respect. We need a new logical fallacy titled the 'Myriad logical fallacy', wherein we have...a myriad of them

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