Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Ziggurat]

Both opening fine for me.

Mine opened to a sensitive comment warning before I could view it.

 

[Pixel42]

I don't have a twitter account but can usually read tweets both in post and by clicking on them. I can read the one in post #8501 both ways. All I get when I click on the previous two tweets, neither of which unfurls, is

Hmm...this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else.

 

[Pixel42]

I am not advocating for transphobia. I strongly believe that transgender folk should have exactly the same rights, and protection against discrimination, as everybody else. Which I'm glad to say they already do, at least in my country.

And it's TRAs who are bullying and threatening anyone who doesn't agree with their demands that they be awarded additional rights which no one in the history of humanity has ever had, many of which directly conflict with the long standing rights of 50% of it.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I am not advocating for transphobia. I strongly believe that transgender folk should have exactly the same rights, and protection against discrimination, as everybody else. Which I'm glad to say they already do, at least in my country.
And it's TRAs who are bullying and threatening anyone who doesn't agree with their demands that they be awarded additional rights which no one in the history of humanity has ever had, many of which directly conflict with the long standing rights of 50% of it.

After the supreme court ruling stating that people can only have the gender assigned to them at birth (which despite the judges' weasel words to the contrary is exactly what they said and meant) this is demonstrantly not true.

 

[Pixel42]

After the supreme court ruling stating that people can only have the gender assigned to them at birth (which despite the judges' weasel words to the contrary is exactly what they said and meant) this is demonstrantly not true.

On the contrary, the SC ruling confirmed that gender identity is a protected characteristic. So the same rights as everybody else, no discrimination, etc, just as I said.

The SC also clarified that the "sex" in "sex segregated" spaces, services etc refers to biological sex, not gender identity. Something that I wouldn't have thought needed clarification, since the objective, biological differences between the sexes are the reason they were created in the first place. But, bafflingly, certain individuals and even organisations (e.g. Stonewall) had somehow contrived to misunderstand this. Or, at least, pretended to misunderstand it.

 

[Thermal]

I've been thinking. If you really believed that trans-identifying men were all sweet, harmless, self-effacing "dolls" and the most marginalised group in society,

...which no one thinks. Transgender people have the same spectrum of behaviors and personality extremes of any other group, including cis people, I'd assume. It's only pure unadulterated bigots that loudly proclaim "they are all the same". Sound like anyone you know?

and you were quite invested in advancing their political aims,

Or not much interested at all, beyond not being a pure bigot towards them.

maybe you would get quite angry and feel you needed to withdraw from a thread that kept shoving reality in front of your face,

Cherry picking, sometimes going back decades (or outright lying), is a form of "showing reality", sure. It's the reality of demonstrating confirmation bias in some of our posters here.

for the sake of your mental health.

The subject matter doesn't affect my mental health. Open, unapologetic bigotry in this forum does. It's both surprising and kind of sad.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1926906985385013446

(Don't know why this won't render, but it's not a pretty picture.)

I finally realized it seems to be a "you" problem. I'm not encountering it anywhere else. Whatever you are doing to create the link, there is some kind of error going on. I've experimented with using your same tweetys, using devices both logged into Twitter and not, and I can't replicate the "nothing here" page that about half your postings show as.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

On the contrary, the SC ruling confirmed that gender identity is a protected characteristic. So the same rights as everybody else, no discrimination, etc, just as I said.

The SC also clarified that the "sex" in "sex segregated" spaces, services etc
refers to biological sex, not gender identity. Something that I wouldn't have thought needed clarification, since the objective, biological differences between the sexes are the reason they were created in the first place. But, bafflingly, certain individuals and even organisations (e.g. Stonewall) had somehow contrived to misunderstand this. Or, at least, pretended to misunderstand it.

You do know that there's more than two sexes right? And that your sex doesn't always comport to your genitalia, kr even your dominant genitalia? But hey, keep telling yourself you're not running with the transphobes, you've decided you aren't.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

You do know that there's more than two sexes right? And that your sex doesn't always comport to your genitalia, kr even your dominant genitalia? But hey, keep telling yourself you're not running with the transphobes, you've decided you aren't.

Seriously, none of that addresses what the SC did, which was to rule on an open and shut case.

 

[Thermal]

You do know that there's more than two sexes right?

There aren't. There's only two in humans, with an occasional anomaly that doesn't equate to a unique sex. Even the varieties of intersex people are one sex with a "mistake" baked in.

Humans have 5 didgits on each hand. That doesn't mean that people born with six or three digits are a unique type of human.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

There aren't. There's only two in humans, with an occasional anomaly that doesn't equate to a unique sex. Even the varieties of intersex people are one sex with a "mistake" baked in.

Humans have 5 didgits on each hand. That doesn't mean that people born with six or three digits are a unique type of human.

'There's only one sexual orientation, with a couple mistakes like homosexuality and bisexuality.'

 

[Thermal]

'There's only one sexual orientation, with a couple mistakes like homosexuality and bisexuality.'

Orientation is not an objective physical characteristic. Sex is. And there's only two.

Ya gonna try any other deeply flawed analogies?

 

[Pixel42]

You do know that there's more than two sexes right?

You do know that reality cannot be changed by the thoughts in somebody's head, right?

[For those not following the Leopards/faces thread, several posts have been moved from that to this thread. My post #8505 was a response to post #8499].

 

[Rolfe]

You do know that there's more than two sexes right? And that your sex doesn't always comport to your genitalia, kr even your dominant genitalia? But hey, keep telling yourself you're not running with the transphobes, you've decided you aren't.

There are only, exactly, two (2) sexes.

 

[Thermal]

I'm feeling like this "gee I can't figure out how many sexes there are" thing should have been detoured to the Strict Biological Definitions thread, not this one?

 

[Elaedith]

You do know that there's more than two sexes right? And that your sex doesn't always comport to your genitalia, kr even your dominant genitalia? But hey, keep telling yourself you're not running with the transphobes, you've decided you aren't.

Strangely, nobody can ever seem to say what these additional sexes are called and what type of gametes they produce.

 

[smartcooky]

You do know that there's more than two sexes right? And that your sex doesn't always comport to your genitalia, kr even your dominant genitalia? But hey, keep telling yourself you're not running with the transphobes, you've decided you aren't.

No, there are not more than two sexes, there are only two sexes, they are male and female. Sex is binary - this is an observable, objective scientific reality.
Males produce small, motile gametes
Females produce large, immotile gametes
There is NO third sex.

 

[theprestige]

You do know that there's more than two sexes right? And that your sex doesn't always comport to your genitalia, kr even your dominant genitalia? But hey, keep telling yourself you're not running with the transphobes, you've decided you aren't.

This is what we mean when we say the trans rights movement has become toxic and anti-science.

 

[angrysoba]

This is an interesting take on trans in the military that I think I agree with. Many of them seem to be doing it to get all the surgery and medical treatment funded by the taxpayer. And is anyone who is liable to be thrown into a tailspin by being called sir instead of ma'am really the sort of person you want to trust with your life?

Of course, it's that account Thermal doesn't approve of again, so it can safely be ignored.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1926804584019665074

Hmmm...

Just one thing here. Wasn't this "high suicide rate" disputed earlier, and now it is seen as evidence for not allowing transpeople in either the military and even in the police:

If you have a mental health condition
that comes with a 47% chance of attempting suicide, the government shouldn’t be handing you a gun — for your own safety, and the safety of those around you. People are regularly excluded from both military and law enforcement for mental health issues with far lower rates of suicidality — why is gender dysphoria an exception?

I'm assuming that this is referring to the American police rather than the UK.

Does anyone know what the rules are on transpeople in the services in the UK?

As for police, I would be pretty astonished if they were not allowed to join.

Also, I think there has been a conspicuous amount of radicalization on this issue not only among trans rights activists but also on the part of the anti-trans posters here.

I for one am happy to accept one formulation, that transwomen should not compete in women's sports (with presumably some exceptions where there can be no physical advantages or where genitals are not of any consequence - darts players don't shower with each other after the competitions as far as I am aware), and that toilets and sex segregated spaces should stay that way to be meaningful.

But I have seen a number of assurances that there is no reason to think of people making these arguments are "transphobic" or in any way bigoted.

Yet, whenever I take a peak in here to see the state of play, it always seems as though the goalposts have moved.

There is often some suggestion that anyone claiming to be trans probably has some kind of very serious disorder that makes them even more dangerous than the general population etc...

It was claimed they should have the same employment rights.... Oh, except in the military. Now, except for the police. Any more exceptions coming down the pike?

Also, what's with this avatar? I assume that the "Protect the Dolls" is some kind of pro-trans slogan.

What does "Sod the Dolls" mean, then? That seems to go beyond the usual, "I just want safe spaces for women" claim.

 

[Brainster]

Hmmm...

Just one thing here. Wasn't this "high suicide rate" disputed earlier, and now it is seen as evidence for not allowing transpeople in either the military and even in the police:

Not sure, but here's an NIH article that says transgender military veterans are 20 times more likely to have "suicide-related events" than cisgender veterans.

The literature to date reveals concerning trends regarding suicidality in transgender individuals. A high prevalence of suicide attempts and thoughts of suicide occur in transgender youth compared to their cisgender peers [11,12,14]. Transgender US military veterans have more than 20 times higher rates of suicide-related events than cisgender veterans [7].

 

[d4m10n]

You can complain all you want to that this is bad policy, but you cannot justifiably claim that this is any sort of abrogation or lessening of rights.

Did I actually bring up rights? I usually try to avoid doing so, since they are whatever the government (after some process of checking and balancing) says they are, and I don't feel like anyone who aspires to critical thinking should outsource their moral reasoning to whichever party happens to hold the legislature and/or the federal courts at any given time.

NO ONE has ANY employment rights in the armed forces.

This will come as a surprise to the IG office.

Cisgender people DO NOT have ANY protections for armed forces employment.

See the IG office link above for a list of the sort of protections they enjoy, none of which are shared by transgender servicemembers.