Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Vixen]

What Vixen is ignoring is when the jury visited the cottage, none of the furniture that was in the room on the night of the murder was in the room. I detailed the dimensions of the room, and how much usable space existed with all the furniture in the room, but as usual, she ignored it.

Per the diagram of the room per the investigation, the "area utile" (which translates to Useful Area) is 160 x 130 cm. For the non-metric folk, that works out to about 5.2 x 4.2 feet. THAT is a small area for four people to be crowded into, all covered in blood, and no trace of two of them.

ETA: Up above you wrote "If a whole load of people can get in a lift a fraction of that size, of course four people can fit into Mez' room. 9' x 11' is spacious enough for a small bedroom." First of all, people stand upright and do nothing in a lift. Sexually assaulting and murdering someone is very different from riding a lift. But again, the room had furniture it in. Per the police's own diagram of her room, as noted above, it was a area of just over 5' x 4'.. that is very small.

Here's a frame from the original reconstruction 20 min film presented by prosecutor Manual Comodi to the trial hearing, based strictly on what was in the evidence file.




And here is a youtube news construction based on a journalist's view (so likely their best guess).

2009 prosecution theory of Meredith Kercher's murder​

 

[Vixen]

Vixen constantly boasts about the strong evidence against Amanda and Raffaele but if this was the case why is it necessary for guilters to constantly resort to lying and repeat the same lies over and over again. Bearing in mind that members of this forum are familiar with the facts of the case and any lies people say in posts will be caught out. The lies about the size 37 prints and Amanda's shoeprint being on paper in Filomena's room have been repeated before

Post dated: 07.06.2016

Claim: A ladies size 37 footprint in Mez' blood.

Truth: There was no size 37 female footprint in Meredith’s room. The defence clearly showed all the footprints belonged to Rudy as detailed below

The Truth About the Shoe Prints in Meredith's Room

A site detailing the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox & Raffaele Sollecito.

www.injusticeinperugia.org

Post dated: 06.06.2017

Claim: There is also the case of the paper scattered under Filomena's window which had Amanda Knox' footprint on it.

Truth: No such footprint exists.

The prosecution never claimed Amanda left her hair in Meredith's room. There was no full DNA profile of Raffaele on the clasp. This is what the defence found about the DNA on the clasp.

"The prosecution claimed that there was an abundant amount of DNA on the clasp. It was stated by the prosecution that Raffaele’s DNA on the clasp was abundant. This is not the case. Raffaele’s DNA was mixed with other DNA. Testing confirmed the victim’s DNA was present along with at least three other unidentified people. The defense argues that proper analysis the DNA on the clasp shows that Raffaele’s DNA is not abundant at all. With proper testing, Raffaele’s alleged DNA is only 1/6 of the total sample. The prosecution agreed with this analysis. That calculation is a best case scenario. In actuality, it could easily be less than 1/6. This lowers the genetic material that is attributed to Raffaele to well under 200 picograms, the standard minimum to be used for normal DNA analysis. In order for the sample to be tested properly, LCN analysis would have been necessary. LCN testing was not done by the prosecution’s experts on the clasp. The defense argues that proper testing shows that some strands do not match Raffaele’s DNA. The defense expert was only able to test a few strands. The court did not understand that if any strands did not match then it wasn’t Raffaele’s DNA. The defense argues that additional testing will prove that the DNA does not belong to Raffaele. This additional testing should be granted on appeal."

Guilters have shown disgusting hypocrisy when attacking Amanda, Raffaele and others for lying. Vixen constantly attacks Amanda and Raffaele for telling numerous lies whilst telling numerous lies in just one short post.

If you go back a few pages, there is a picture from the Perugia Scientific Police files showing a photograph of the footprint, together with the analysis of its diameters showing how the expert objective forensic scientist identified size and make of it.



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[Vixen]

Unfortunately, you just pulled that out of an orifice in a lame attempt to distract from the fact that you've been caught misrepresenting other people's statements and arguments so many times. (Note that this is of a piece with your bogus claim that "conspiracy theory" has come to mean a scenario that must involve reptilian overlords or international Jewish cabals, in an equally lame attempt to pretend that you don't promote conspiracy theories. )

Googling "'mischaracterisation' site:www.bbc.com" yields (only recent examples and not quoting foreigners, unless otherwise noted):

AI Overview​

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The BBC's website has used the term "mischaracterised" in a variety of contexts, often when someone is claiming their words or actions have been unfairly represented​

.​

Here are some examples from BBC News:​

1. Claims of Misrepresentation:​

• Politicians and Public Figures: Politicians or public figures sometimes claim their statements have been "mischaracterised" by the media or opponents, according to the BBC.
• Organizations and Companies: Organizations or companies might assert that their actions or positions have been "mischaracterised" in reports or criticisms.

2. Contexts Where "Mischaracterised" is Used:​

• Political Discourse: The term often appears in political discussions when individuals or groups feel their views or actions have been misrepresented.
• Controversial Issues: It can be used in discussions about sensitive or controversial topics, where different interpretations of events or statements may exist.
• Media Reporting: The BBC itself, or other news outlets, may use the term when reporting on claims of misrepresentation made by individuals or organizations.

3. Examples of "Mischaracterised" in BBC News:​

• A politician might say their comments on a policy were "mischaracterised" after facing criticism.
• A company might claim that reports about its environmental impact have "mischaracterised" its practices.
• A person involved in a public debate might argue that their position has been "mischaracterised" by opponents.

Note: The BBC, like any news organization, strives for accuracy and impartiality in its reporting. The use of "mischaracterised" usually indicates that a claim of misrepresentation has been made, but it does not necessarily mean the BBC is endorsing that claim.​

Ordinarily, I wouldn't include an AI overview, of course, but I believe it's on point in this case, as Gemini is an LLM whose training dataset included the BBC website.

Facebook drives sceptics towards climate denial​

30 March 2022​

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. . . Although this was a mischaraterisation of climate scientists' findings, it was not a prediction "all ice would melt by 2013".​

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Birkenhead firm Wabtec denies plans to 'fire and rehire' workers​

23 February 2022​

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. . . A spokesperson for Wabtec said there were no plans to "fire and rehire", describing it as a mischaracterisation.​

​

In the interest of full disclosure, Wabtec is described elsewhere in the article as a "US-based" company, but the word is not in quotation marks, and there is also no reason to assume that the spokesperson was an American or reading from a statement written by an American.

Row over 'anti-driver taxes' at FMQs​

21 April 2022​

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[snip]​

• Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar claims the SNP has wasted £3bn of public money on "'delays, loan write offs, or avoidable spending" since it came to power
• Ms Sturgeon dismissed the figure, describing it as an "utter mischaracterisation"

Whether this qualifies as "caught in a whopper" and "misbehavior" is highly debatable at best, but I'll give you this one anyway. (Note for those who don't speak UKian: FMQs is First Minister's Questions, AKA FM's Question Time.)

Praise for Jersey woman raising awareness about cancer in young people​

2 October 2023​

. . . Ashley Ball-Gamble, chief executive of the Children's Cancer and Leukaemia Group, said by age 20, a person's risk of cancer is about one in 320.​

"The mischaracterisation that cancer in young people is rare is unhelpful, as it can mean cancer isn't considered when symptoms indicate otherwise," he said.​

Bibby Stockholm: Government to investigate migrants' baptisms​

8 February 2024​

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. . . Following Prime Minister's Questions, the Archbishop of Canterbury issued the following statement: "Over the last week it has been disappointing to see the mischaracterisation of the role of churches and faith groups in the asylum system."​

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'Hundreds feared dead in quake' and Reeves likened to Truss​

29 March 2025​

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. . . The Daily Telegraph says Canada's Prime Minister, Mark Carney, has denied allegations of plagiarism after questions were asked about ten pages of his 1995 Oxford University thesis. His team has described the claims as an "irresponsible mischaracterisation".​

​

I'll also give you this one, even though Carney's Canadian, as he studied at Oxford and served as Governor of the Bank of England for seven years.

Scotland's papers: 'Maritime waster' and digital learning to continue​

28 April 2021​

. . . The Daily Telegraph reports that businessman Sir James Dyson has accused the BBC of a "grotesque mischaracterisation" of his ties to the Conservative Party after the broadcaster reported on text message exchanges sent between Sir James and Boris Johnson.​

Extinction Rebellion: Conditional discharge for Shell protest woman​

27 April 2021​

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. . . "It should not be taken as any indication that any further cases of this nature will necessarily be dealt with in the same way or that the court takes the view that offences of this sort do not merit greater punishment.​

​

"That would be a mischaracterisation of what has happened today."​

​

Coal mine plan quashed by High Court​

13 September 2024​

​

. . . Lawyers for WCM said there had been "repeated mischaracterisation" of the plans and the development would have a "broadly neutral effect on the global release of greenhouse gas".​

​

Weston-super-Mare care home told to improve after inadequate rating​

. . . A spokesperson for Sherwood Lodge said the report was "fundamentally and fatally flawed, based on a misrepresentation and mischaracterisation of our service as a 'hospital', which it is not and never has been.​

In summation, from the last five years, and excluding cases where foreigners were quoted except as discussed, we have 10 cases where the word appears, and only two were from politicians or their spokespeople defending their or their governments' actions. So, again, you just made up your claim about "mischaracterisation" only being used in the UK by politicians to attack those calling out their lies or misbehavior.


And yet another argument from personal incredulity.

ETA: I should have also mentioned that just because a politician accuses another politician or the media of mischaracterizing something he or she said, that doesn't mean it's a lie, because mischaracterization of one's political opponents or those disfavored certainly does happen, intentionally or otherwise.

Edit: Typos

If we can all avoid clichés, platitudes and trite phrases, we'll all be happy.

An example from your post:

• 'you just pulled that out of an orifice'

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[Welshman]

If you go back a few pages, there is a picture from the Perugia Scientific Police files showing a photograph of the footprint, together with the analysis of its diameters showing how the expert objective forensic scientist identified size and make of it.



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To prove Vixen has not lied, she talks about a police photo of a footprint but is very vague where this photo is only saying it is a few pages back and doesn't say which footprint it refers to.

 

[Stacyhs]

1. John Follain

This is what you claimed:

Vixen said:
In fact, it was the defence that requested the visit to the cottage, bringing Delfo with them, but they shot themself in the foot as the jurors milling around the outside wall commented that anyone trying to climb that steep face was putting life and limb at risk.

This is what Follain actually wrote:

The judges and jurors then went to examine the smooth wall under Filomena’s window. One woman juror remarked: ‘If you ask me, anyone trying to climb that wall would have come to a sticky end.’

ONE juror, Vixen. Not plural "jurors". Nor did she see anyone actually try to climb the wall.

2. Do a search of the thread as this was discussed in depth before.

Nope. You've never provided any evidence of Knox's shoe print on any paper on the floor or duvet in Meredith's room. Neither did the prosecution ever claim any such thing. That should tell you something. Emphasis on "should".

Just admit you don't have any evidence to support your claim .

 

[Stacyhs]

If we can all avoid clichés, platitudes and trite phrases, we'll all be happy.

How about we avoid mischaracterizations and making claims with no evidence? How about we answer questions when asked instead of ignoring them? How about we quote and cite supporting evidence of any claims?

An example from your post:

• 'you just pulled that out of an orifice'

Which is exactly what you did. It's just another one of your assfacts which is why you fail to provide evidence.

 

[Stacyhs]

To prove Vixen has not lied, she talks about a police photo of a footprint but is very vague where this photo is only saying it is a few pages back and doesn't say which footprint it refers to.

Vixen responded to a comment in which two prints were discussed: the mythical size 37 shoeprint on the pillowcase and the print found on the paper on the duvet. She does not say which she's referring to in her answer:

Vixen said:
If you go back a few pages, there is a picture from the Perugia Scientific Police files showing a photograph of the footprint, together with the analysis of its diameters showing how the expert objective forensic scientist identified size and make of it.

From this, I think she's referring to the "size 37 shoe".

Her comment "showing how the expert objective forensic scientist identified size and make of it," is interesting.
Note how the paid for prosecution experts (whom Vixen denied were paid) are "expert" and "objective" but Prof. Vinci, who showed it was a partial print of Guede's shoe, is "bent". This despite the fact that even Massei could not 'rule out' that only Guede had walked on that pillow.

The Experts According to Vixen: All prosecution experts are honest, competent, and objective while all defense experts are "bent", "bought off" or "incompetent".

 

[Vixen]

Vixen responded to a comment in which two prints were discussed: the mythical size 37 shoeprint on the pillowcase and the print found on the paper on the duvet. She does not say which she's referring to in her answer:

From this, I think she's referring to the "size 37 shoe".

Her comment "showing how the expert objective forensic scientist identified size and make of it," is interesting.
Note how the paid for prosecution experts (whom Vixen denied were paid) are "expert" and "objective" but Prof. Vinci, who showed it was a partial print of Guede's shoe, is "bent". This despite the fact that even Massei could not 'rule out' that only Guede had walked on that pillow.

The Experts According to Vixen: All prosecution experts are honest, competent, and objective while all defense experts are "bent", "bought off" or "incompetent".

Vinci received a dressing down from the court for trying to forge a footprint to look like Guede's. Vinci was hired by the defence to put up 'an alternative theory'. The judges and jury preferred the expert prosecution witnesses.

We are not having a retrial here, so there is no point in your bringing up Hellmann or Vinci.

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[SpitfireIX]

If we can all avoid clichés, platitudes and trite phrases, we'll all be happy.

An example from your post:

• 'you just pulled that out of an orifice'

How about addressing the substance of my post, namely, that you just made up your claim that in UKian English, "mischaracterisation" is now used exclusively by politicians as a bogus defense against charges of having lied or committed other forms of malfeasance?

 

[TruthCalls]

Here's a frame from the original reconstruction 20 min film presented by prosecutor Manual Comodi to the trial hearing, based strictly on what was in the evidence file.

View attachment 60999


And here is a youtube news construction based on a journalist's view (so likely their best guess).

2009 prosecution theory of Meredith Kercher's murder​

Seriously, I give you the actual dimensions as provided by the investigation, and you give me frames from a cartoon?

The scale is completely wrong. The distance between the wardrobe and the desk is 130 cm yet in the first picture it looks almost double that.

The door jam for Meredith's bedroom door is up against the adjacent wall (in other words, the door could never open more than 45 degrees) yet in the YT video it looks like a good meter between the jam and the wall.

And BTW, you didn't address the fact that when the jurors visited the cottage, Meredith's bedroom had been gutted. Take the furniture out of a room and the room suddenly looks much bigger.

I will repeat - the usable area is 160 x 130 cm. I strongly urge you to use some masking tape and mask off an area of that size and then you tell me if you still think it's reasonable to envision four people inside the box committing a forced, violent, bloody sexual assault and murder and two of them could leave no forensic trace of themselves.

 

[Vixen]

How about addressing the substance of my post, namely, that you just made up your claim that in UKian English, "mischaracterisation" is now used exclusively by politicians as a bogus defense against charges of having lied or committed other forms of malfeasance?

Look, when someone starts using a multiple-syllabled word as though they have only just discovered it, it becomes jarring to see it in their every second sentence. A word also needs to be used correctly. Yes, 'mischaracterise' is a politician-type word designed to sidestep difficult issues rather than confront them. It is not a get-out-of-jail-card. As you saw when the Orange One was pressed by persistent journalists.



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[Vixen]

Seriously, I give you the actual dimensions as provided by the investigation, and you give me frames from a cartoon?

The scale is completely wrong. The distance between the wardrobe and the desk is 130 cm yet in the first picture it looks almost double that.

The door jam for Meredith's bedroom door is up against the adjacent wall (in other words, the door could never open more than 45 degrees) yet in the YT video it looks like a good meter between the jam and the wall.

And BTW, you didn't address the fact that when the jurors visited the cottage, Meredith's bedroom had been gutted. Take the furniture out of a room and the room suddenly looks much bigger.

I will repeat - the usable area is 160 x 130 cm. I strongly urge you to use some masking tape and mask off an area of that size and then you tell me if you still think it's reasonable to envision four people inside the box committing a forced, violent, bloody sexual assault and murder and two of them could leave no forensic trace of themselves.

The graphic is from THE POLICE - a faithfully reproduced scientific reconstruction based on forensic measurements and details based on type of wounds. AK is said to have banged Mez' head on the wall several times and also tried to strangle her. The sequence is based on the pattern of injuries. You do know the forensic police visited the scene and carefully measured it. They also went through the pathology report with a fine-tooth comb. It wasn't drawn by a random on the internet.



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[AmyStrange]

I always find it hilarious when big egos get truncated by their small brains.


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[Jack by the hedge]

AK is said to have banged Mez' head on the wall several times and also tried to strangle her.

She is said to have turned me into a newt.

 

[TruthCalls]

The graphic is from THE POLICE - a faithfully reproduced scientific reconstruction based on forensic measurements and details based on type of wounds. AK is said to have banged Mez' head on the wall several times and also tried to strangle her. The sequence is based on the pattern of injuries. You do know the forensic police visited the scene and carefully measured it. They also went through the pathology report with a fine-tooth comb. It wasn't drawn by a random on the internet.

So these are "faithfully reproduced", eh? OK, so here's the YT video screen grab;



And here we have a photo of Meredith's bedroom door;



As we ALL can see, the YT video has added at least the width of the bed to the length of the room. Yup, faithfully reproduced. I can't wait to hear your explanation for this one...

Oh, and BTW, as you can see, the door is hinged on the left side as you enter the room whereas in the video it's hinged on the right. Oh yeah, so faithfully reproduced. I certainly can't complain about the attention to detail!

ETA: Yes, I'm aware the the forensic police visited the scene and carefully measured it. That's how I know the exact measurements, and how I was able to easily conclude the pictures you posted were not faithful and to scale. But you're so invested in your belief that you can't see the obvious.

 

[TruthCalls]

So these are "faithfully reproduced", eh? OK, so here's the YT video screen grab;

View attachment 61021

And here we have a photo of Meredith's bedroom door;

View attachment 61022

As we ALL can see, the YT video has added at least the width of the bed to the length of the room. Yup, faithfully reproduced. I can't wait to hear your explanation for this one...

Oh, and BTW, as you can see, the door is hinged on the left side as you enter the room whereas in the video it's hinged on the right. Oh yeah, so faithfully reproduced. I certainly can't complain about the attention to detail!

ETA: Yes, I know the forensic police came and carefully measured the room. I'm staring at those measurements right now. That's how I know what the images depict are wrong. But as usual, you're so invested in your belief that you can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Vixen]

So these are "faithfully reproduced", eh? OK, so here's the YT video screen grab;

View attachment 61021

And here we have a photo of Meredith's bedroom door;

View attachment 61022

As we ALL can see, the YT video has added at least the width of the bed to the length of the room. Yup, faithfully reproduced. I can't wait to hear your explanation for this one...

Oh, and BTW, as you can see, the door is hinged on the left side as you enter the room whereas in the video it's hinged on the right. Oh yeah, so faithfully reproduced. I certainly can't complain about the attention to detail!

ETA: Yes, I'm aware the the forensic police visited the scene and carefully measured it. That's how I know the exact measurements, and how I was able to easily conclude the pictures you posted were not faithful and to scale. But you're so invested in your belief that you can't see the obvious.

No, as made clear in the post - that particular yt clip was the likely 'best guess' of a journalist in 'News Direct'.

To recap, I said:

And here is a youtube news construction based on a journalist's view (so likely their best guess).

 

[Disbelief]

Look, when someone starts using a multiple-syllabled word as though they have only just discovered it, it becomes jarring to see it in their every second sentence. A word also needs to be used correctly. Yes, 'mischaracterise' is a politician-type word designed to sidestep difficult issues rather than confront them. It is not a get-out-of-jail-card. As you saw when the Orange One was pressed by persistent journalists.



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The old passive-aggressive insinuation that you are smarter than others here and your command of the English language is superior. Would you prefer for people to say you lie when you talk your ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊?

 

[Vixen]

The old passive-aggressive insinuation that you are smarter than others here and your command of the English language is superior. Would you prefer for people to say you lie when you talk your ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊?

I certainly don't 'mischaracterise'. I say what I mean and yes, it gets me into trouble, as people have seen. I can't see the point in seeing clearly that something is a lie or an error and then pretending that it is not. I get that others might not see this clearly but that is hardly my problem.



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[Vixen]

She is said to have turned me into a newt.

From Mignini's closing arguments:

During the inter partes between the parties, the experts specified, with reference to the causes of death and in particular the dynamism of the conduct that led to the death event, that this depended on a mechanical asphyxia by direct compression on the neck with one hand or with both hands (throttling), placed in relation to a compression at the level of the air orifices in particular of the mouth in view of the micro-lesions found precisely inside the mouth (suffocation).

All together 47 significant injuries, including four serious stabbings to the neck - two different sized-knives - and at least thirteen knife-point jabs. Few defence wounds. The victim heavily restrained whilst being tortured. Enforced subordination and a cruel and deliberately prolonged killing.

All for 'futile' motive.


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