General UK politics VIII - The Last Tory

Starmer selling us out again it seems, because of course no true patriotic Brit would consider going to Europe for work or education si it's just another way to replace the native population.

Albania and Macedonia aren’t in the EU.

Darren Grimes
@darrengrimes_
🚨 NEW: Labour’s Brexit reset could open the UK up to 150 million new migrants via EU youth visas — with no confirmed cap.

Keir Starmer refuses to deny it.

Albania, North Macedonia, and 80 million under-35s already qualify — and that’s before Brussels adds more.

No cap. No vote. No control.

The price of Labour’s “deal” with the EU?
Our borders, our laws, our youth — sold out behind closed doors.

Britain’s had enough of betrayal and backroom deals.
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Vixen said:
I went to a direct grant grammar school. I have never claimed otherwise.
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So did Starmer. It wasn't a private school, it wasn't a boarding school, it wasn't a fee-paying school. Neither of you went to a secondary modern since presumably both of you passed your 11+ and got streamed to the grammar school system.

So which aspect of your shared educational experience encouraged a later addiction to using rent boys?
 
Mojo said:
The point that this is not the first time you have confused grammar schools with the type of school attendance at which would make someone part of "the establishment".
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I went to a grammar school, entry to which was based on having a functioning brain. Nobody there was part of the Establishment and as far as I’m aware none of us went on to become so either. There were plenty of fee-paying schools in the area for those kinds of people.
 
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malbui said:
I went to a grammar school, entry to which was based on having a functioning brain. Nobody there was part of the Establishment and as far as I’m aware none of us went on to become so either. There were plenty of fee-paying schools in the area for those kinds of people.
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Same here.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
So did Starmer. It wasn't a private school, it wasn't a boarding school, it wasn't a fee-paying school. Neither of you went to a secondary modern since presumably both of you passed your 11+ and got streamed to the grammar school system.

So which aspect of your shared educational experience encouraged a later addiction to using rent boys?
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I profoundly disagree with you that 'Starmer went to an ordinary school'. You are judging his school by the standards of today's egalitarian system, where everyone has an equal opportunity and no-one is in competition with anyone else; marks are neutral, such as, 'A', 'B', or 'C', etc. It is a sociological fact that the type of school Starmer frequented was indeed highly elite. There would have been intense competition for such a place, it was a door opener; pupils were pitted in competition with each other; actual marks and ranks were read out in front of the class. Those with good marks were encouraged to feel pride (hence the reputation of being 'stuck up'), with those of lesser ability expected to feel envious and ashamed, and to strive to emulate the more academic. For Starmer to get into Oxford to study Law tells you that behind those boyish spectacles is a determined character who had a good school support network, given subjects like Law and English are amongst the most popular and heavily oversubscribed.

Look up the social history of the tripartite system to confirm for yourself it was not only highly elite and sought after, it was indeed a ladder into the establishment, with even fee-paying parents desperate to get a place (one reason the system was abolished) and academic success ranked higher than the traditional fee-paying schools. It gave us Harold Wilson, Ted Heath, Margaret Thatcher, etcetera.


Claiming Starmer's Reigate Grammar of the 1970's was just 'an ordinary school' like the comprehensive down the road is a common misconception.


As for the rent boy joke, the caricature of the English upper classes as being effete is founded on a perception of 'camp' as being a peculiarly English thing. Like all caricatures there is a kernel of truth, given the the tradition of single sex schools.




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Well, bless my soul, what's wrong with me?

I missed out on becoming PM somehow, despite the advantages of being part of The Establishment...

Assuming that The Establishment covers children of physiotherapists (one born in a pit village and the other in a coal yard) who passed the 11+ and went to the local grammar school in the north east (not the local fee-paying school, which was mostly for thickos with wealthy parents).

FFS, the closest anyone I was at school with got to "Establishment" was becoming chief constable of a small police force.
 
OK, have it your way. Starmer was just a very ordinary boy whose dad was a toolmaker. It is worth remembering that neither Boris Johnson or Rishi Sunak came from a particularly wealthy background. They too, had scholarships and financial assistance. Sunak's parents drove him to Wellington every day, as a dayboy. I am not sure whether Johnson was a boarder or not but whilst he went to Eton, Sunak is probably much brighter than him.


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Brexitersand gammons are apoplectic this morning.

Main story all day no doubt.

UK and EU reach new deal including 12-year agreement on EU fishing boats in UK waters

The Tories say the government has "let down our fishing community"
 
Andy_Ross said:
Brexitersand gammons are apoplectic this morning.

Main story all day no doubt.

UK and EU reach new deal including 12-year agreement on EU fishing boats in UK waters

The Tories say the government has "let down our fishing community"
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Fine ****-em
 
Vixen said:
....snip...

Look up the social history of the tripartite system to confirm for yourself it was not only highly elite and sought after, it was indeed a ladder into the establishment, with even fee-paying parents desperate to get a place
(one reason the system was abolished) and academic success ranked higher than the traditional fee-paying schools. It gave us Harold Wilson, Ted Heath, Margaret Thatcher, etcetera.

...snip...
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Which system was abolished?
 
Vixen said:
I profoundly disagree with you that 'Starmer went to an ordinary school'. You are judging his school by the standards of today's egalitarian system, where everyone has an equal opportunity and no-one is in competition with anyone else; marks are neutral, such as, 'A', 'B', or 'C', etc. It is a sociological fact that the type of school Starmer frequented was indeed highly elite. There would have been intense competition for such a place, it was a door opener; pupils were pitted in competition with each other; actual marks and ranks were read out in front of the class. Those with good marks were encouraged to feel pride (hence the reputation of being 'stuck up'), with those of lesser ability expected to feel envious and ashamed, and to strive to emulate the more academic. For Starmer to get into Oxford to study Law tells you that behind those boyish spectacles is a determined character who had a good school support network, given subjects like Law and English are amongst the most popular and heavily oversubscribed.

Look up the social history of the tripartite system to confirm for yourself it was not only highly elite and sought after, it was indeed a ladder into the establishment, with even fee-paying parents desperate to get a place (one reason the system was abolished) and academic success ranked higher than the traditional fee-paying schools. It gave us Harold Wilson, Ted Heath, Margaret Thatcher, etcetera.


Claiming Starmer's Reigate Grammar of the 1970's was just 'an ordinary school' like the comprehensive down the road is a common misconception.


As for the rent boy joke, the caricature of the English upper classes as being effete is founded on a perception of 'camp' as being a peculiarly English thing. Like all caricatures there is a kernel of truth, given the the tradition of single sex schools.
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That's an awful lot of words to keep up the pretence that Starmer went to an elite school unlike yours. To maintain the fiction you need to stuff words in my mouth, suggesting I said 'Starmer went to an ordinary school' instead of what I actually said, and then condescendingly tell us that people just don't understand the difference between a grammar school and a comprehensive.

Starmer went to a grammar school. So did you. Your schools were each academically elite (in that they took pupils who passed the eleven plus exam while those who didn't went to secondary modern schools) but not socially elite like the prestigious fee-paying private schools you're trying to convince us Starmer's grammar school was somehow equivalent to.

To the Eton crowd up at Oxford he would have been another grammar school boy, not one of them.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Brexitersand gammons are apoplectic this morning.

Main story all day no doubt.

UK and EU reach new deal including 12-year agreement on EU fishing boats in UK waters

The Tories say the government has "let down our fishing community"
Click to expand...
I may be out of touch with their plight. Last I heard about our fishing community, they sold on their quotas to foreign boats then complained about all the foreign boats.
 
Liz says
"No Parliament can bind its successor.
This "deal" must be jettisoned in 2029"
 
Nigel and Tice say the EU surrender has guaranteed a Reform government at the next election.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
That's an awful lot of words to keep up the pretence that Starmer went to an elite school unlike yours. To maintain the fiction you need to stuff words in my mouth, suggesting I said 'Starmer went to an ordinary school' instead of what I actually said, and then condescendingly tell us that people just don't understand the difference between a grammar school and a comprehensive.

Starmer went to a grammar school. So did you. Your schools were each academically elite (in that they took pupils who passed the eleven plus exam while those who didn't went to secondary modern schools) but not socially elite like the prestigious fee-paying private schools you're trying to convince us Starmer's grammar school was somehow equivalent to.

To the Eton crowd up at Oxford he would have been another grammar school boy, not one of them.
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I grew up on a council estate, the youngest of six children. We barely scraped by, there was no money for extras like holidays. In 1963 I passed the eleven plus (the only one from my primary school to do so that year) and got a place at Stroud Girls High School which was (and still is) a Grammar school.

Welcome to Stroud High School

Welcome to Stroud High School
stroudhigh.gloucs.sch.uk stroudhigh.gloucs.sch.uk

There were plenty of other girls there like me. My elder brother got a place at the boys Grammar School in the same way. My other four siblings failed the eleven plus and went to the Comprehensive.
 
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