Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Emily's Cat]

Not sure if this is the right forum for it, but I just noticed this:

US military spends eight times more on Viagra than gender-affirming care

In a hearing over the Defense Department's removal of transgender service members, a judge uncovered that the military spends $42 million a year on Viagra.

www.newsweek.com

But it makes me wonder about definitions. If boner pills aren't "gender-affirming care," what is?

Totally on board with forwarding that to DOGE - US taxpayers shouldn't be funding viagra.

 

[Ziggurat]

Why on earth is this the worst solution to you?

I suspect he may have envisioned that the "Others" would be a category excluding non-trans people, and thus using it would draw attention to them they would not like. But I don't think he followed up on my clarification, so who knows.

 

[Ziggurat]

Totally on board with forwarding that to DOGE - US taxpayers shouldn't be funding viagra.

Sildenafil (non-branded name) was originally developed to treat hypertension, it was only during trials that its effectiveness for erectile dysfunction was discovered. It's still prescribed for hypertension as well. I think that use is entirely appropriate for the military to spend money on.

 

[Emily's Cat]

It's the percentage of the total male population that are pervs that's the problem. The fact that almost all women have experienced some kind of unwanted sexual attention should give you an idea of how high that percentage is. Many women and girls can't even walk past a building site without being perved on. All most pervs seem to require is the opportunity, and a reasonable chance of getting away with it. Self ID gives them both.

QFT

 

[Emily's Cat]

I have listened, considered, and discussed their respective points. Each and every one bails and changes the subject, only to bring it up again a couple pages later. As i'm sure you might have heard, rinse and repeat.

This is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊, and you know it, buddy. I haven't bailed and changed the subject - I've devoted a ◊◊◊◊ ton more time to trying to respectfully engage you on this than I normally bother with. Elaedith and Aber and Pixel42 haven't bailed and changed subjects. Neither has Rolfe, although they have obviously hit the point of being completely over engaging with you on this topic.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I said genitalia. And no, I don't interact with them at all. Every guy and gal I meet could have anything between their legs, and I wouldn't know, or care.

No, you didn't:

I'm not even expecting transwomen to be accepted as women (I used 'women with an asterisk' as a descriptor earlier in the thread). They are not female, after all. But someone's biological sex is not something we deal with day-to-day much beyond our SOs, so I'm very inclined to treat them as what they say they are, because their DNA doesn't impact our interactions.

 

[Thermal]

Your proposed solution requires females to completely alter the way we behave and interact with each other, and to adopt male norms while in restrooms. Why do you believe that females should be required to become more male-like in our behavior, just so that some males get to be allowed to use female-only spaces?

I actually asked my wife about that. I asked her how she hated to alter her life and adopt male behaviors and all that after my state adopted its open doors policy. She, in return, asked me when I turned stupid. After assuring her that I was sincere, she told me nothing changed. No more transwomen than she had come across before the law. No onslaught of "cross dressing pervs". Nothing happened.

I've told you this several times, and you ignore it, rinse and repeat. I don't have to speculate on what would happen. We have both data and years of personal experience to weigh out exactly, precisely what really happens. Nothing.

What if the transwoman is Eddie Izzard, who looks entirely like a male? What if it's a male that looks like a male, is wearing jeans and a t-shirt, but really wants to use the female toilets?

Why do you think that females should be required to compromise our single-sex intimate spaces at all?

I've answered this several times, and you ignore it, then rinse and repeat. I don't think.they have ever been purely single sex (nor have the mens), and they are not generally intimate spaces.

More specifically... why do you seem to believe that the feelings of some males are more important than the feelings, privacy, and dignity of all females?

I don't. I think that as a society, we need to focus on not being scummy to the little guy and treat them like second class citizens because they are in the small trans minority.

 

[Matthew Best]

I don't have to speculate on what would happen. We have both data and years of personal experience to weigh out exactly, precisely what really happens. Nothing.

What data?

 

[Thermal]

This is ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊, and you know it, buddy. I haven't bailed and changed the subject - I've devoted a ◊◊◊◊ ton more time to trying to respectfully engage you on this than I normally bother with.

You have, but read your last dozen replies to me. You ask the same questions that I have already answered multiple times. You are not listening to my answers.

Elaedith and Aber and Pixel42 haven't bailed and changed subjects.

Pixel is currently not responding to a direct challenge, nor has she responded to any since I've been here. Edalith has only popped in to insult me when I challenged the stellar work of the three musketeers. Aber has only popped in briefly a couple times, and I wasn't considering them a prime combatant here.

Neither has Rolfe, although they have obviously hit the point of being completely over engaging with you on this topic.

I just got done asking Rolfe for the 10th time about the evidence she claimed she had about AGP, which she still lacks the character to address. She has also refused to engage on the multiple criticisms I've dropped against her tweetys, some of which may rise to the level of criminality (libel) because they are lies about real people. She has not once engaged honestly about any challenge dropped in her lap, so don't give me any whitewashed bull ◊◊◊◊ about her nobility.

 

[Thermal]

What data?

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Matthew Best]

That's not data.

 

[Thermal]

I've been repeating for many pages. Read the thread, don't ask me to keep repeating. I'm not one of you Groundhog Day mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ that gets off repeating the same thing over and over and not listening to replies.

 

[Thermal]

No, you didn't:

Conceded. That time, I didn't specify that I meant what was between their legs. But after having repeated it a dozen or so times, there's hardly room to say you didn't understand if I meant something else that particular time.

 

[Rolfe]

You've been asked repeatedly to provide evidence for your AGP claims, that you said you had. I'm just reminding you that you seem to keep forgetting to provide it, before you change the subject. It's important, because it shows that you were not only lying (which we both knew), but that you knew you were lying, and you are still aware of it, and lack the integrity to admit it. I'll drop it now, since I've asked you a half dozen times and you still weasel. It's not a mistake or oversight. You knew you were lying about it, and won't be honest. Done and done.

To answer your question which has also been answered a dozen times: you don't need to know what's going on between their legs. Unless you are persuing them for sex, it doesn't matter, and is frankly pretty pervy to be as interested as you and others are.

You are not the Penis Police. Other people's genitalia are not your business.

You just don't like the evidence. Anything you don't like, you simply announce that it has been discredited. Yes, by a bunch of trans activists.

I don't care if the man invading women's spaces has a penis or not. He's a man. He should not be there. End of. I can tell who is a man and who isn't without a genital inspection. You are proposing that men who do not have a penis should have the right to occupy women's spaces. You're the one who is being the "penis police" in fact, and I'm asking you how anyone is supposed to tell who these men are. Genital inspection?

 

[Matthew Best]

I've been repeating for many pages. Read the thread, don't ask me to keep repeating. I'm not one of you Groundhog Day mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ that gets off repeating the same thing over and over and not listening to replies.

You've been repeating that there is no data, you haven't been repeating the data. The two things are not the same.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I actually asked my wife about that. I asked her how she hated to alter her life and adopt male behaviors and all that after my state adopted its open doors policy. She, in return, asked me when I turned stupid. After assuring her that I was sincere, she told me nothing changed. No more transwomen than she had come across before the law. No onslaught of "cross dressing pervs". Nothing happened.

That's not what I meant. You suggested that all bathrooms should be turned into completely single-occupancy rooms, where people go in, do their business in silence, and leave. I (and others) pointed out that females use restrooms in a different way than males do, that we talk to other females, we interact, we help each other with clothing and a variety of other issues. They also get used as a sanctuary in some venues - nightclubs, dance halls, bars - in ways that males simply don't use them.

I've told you this several times, and you ignore it, rinse and repeat. I don't have to speculate on what would happen. We have both data and years of personal experience to weigh out exactly, precisely what really happens. Nothing.

Well, no. You have personal experience in your state, and you've unquestioningly accepted your experience as being fully representative. You've dismissed out of hand the experiences that smartcooky has shared, as well as what Rolfe has shared. You've ignored everyone else's personal experience, and you've refused to even consider self-exclusion of a lot of females who just don't use public restrooms anymore - even though a few of us have told you we self-exclude, and even though there are numerous articles out there about young females in middle and high school who avoid drinking anything so they don't have to use a bathroom that males have access to.

I've answered this several times, and you ignore it, then rinse and repeat. I don't think.they have ever been purely single sex (nor have the mens), and they are not generally intimate spaces.

You've told me your belief several times, yes. And again, you've taken your own belief and your own personal view to be sacrosanct, despite several females in this thread telling you that *we* view them as single-sex and also as intimate spaces.

I don't. I think that as a society, we need to focus on not being scummy to the little guy and treat them like second class citizens because they are in the small trans minority.

Why do you think that requiring males to use male spaces is scummy?
Why do you NOT think that requiring females to share such spaces with males against their will is treating females like second class citizens?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Conceded. That time, I didn't specify that I meant what was between their legs. But after having repeated it a dozen or so times, there's hardly room to say you didn't understand if I meant something else that particular time.

This argument of yours implicitly relies on the false assertion that nobody can tell who is male and who is female unless they see that person's genitals.

 

[Thermal]

You just don't like the evidence. Anything you don't like, you simply announce that it has been discredited. Yes, by a bunch of trans activists.

You have given DEAD ZERO of the evidence that I have asked for. The only thing you put up was that open letter published on a hate website.

In it, the authors acknowledged that they had no evidence, and were relying on their "hunches", and were diagnosing Caitlyn Jenner through their whacky postulates, despite having dead zero first hand reporting in her own words. No credible professional would ever do such a thing.

I don't care if the man invading women's spaces has a penis or not. He's a man. He should not be there. End of. I can tell who is a man and who isn't without a genital inspection. You are proposing that men who do not have a penis should have the right to occupy women's spaces. You're the one who is being the "penis police" in fact, and I'm asking you how anyone is supposed to tell who these men are. Genital inspection?

As I've said every time you brought this up, you don't have to check. It ain't ya business.

Take a guess at how many additional problems (that you insist are inevitable) happened in Massachusetts when they went open doors years ago. I'll give you a hint: it was an integer less than 1. Guess how many my own wife and daughters and female friends have had to deal with in my own open doors state. Hint: it's the same number.

What you fantasize about is just that, a fantasy. It doesn't happen.

 

[Thermal]

That's not what I meant. You suggested that all bathrooms should be turned into completely single-occupancy rooms, where people go in, do their business in silence, and leave. I (and others) pointed out that females use restrooms in a different way than males do, that we talk to other females, we interact, we help each other with clothing and a variety of other issues. They also get used as a sanctuary in some venues - nightclubs, dance halls, bars - in ways that males simply don't use them.

No, I didn't. I said ADD a privacy stall with its own sink to handle privacy issues, not make them all single occupancy. Y U do dis?

Well, no. You have personal experience in your state, and you've unquestioningly accepted your experience as being fully representative. You've dismissed out of hand the experiences that smartcooky has shared, as well as what Rolfe has shared. You've ignored everyone else's personal experience,

Bull ◊◊◊◊. I have sympathized with smartcooky's daughters experience, and his take on it as a father, very specifically and more than once. EC, I luv ya, buy your turning into one of them. You can't just make ◊◊◊◊ up because you like the narrative better.

and you've refused to even consider self-exclusion of a lot of females who just don't use public restrooms anymore - even though a few of us have told you we self-exclude

Rolfe has recently said she self excludes, despite having gotten full legal protections. So what the hell are you accomplishing? She gets exactly what she wanted in her country, and is still playing the martyr. You wanna pee? Go pee. Ill bet you its like every other time you peed and NOT A DAMN THING DIFFERENT HAPPENS.

You also forgot about the Massachusetts statewide data and other work from the Williams cats.

, and even though there are numerous articles out there about young females in middle and high school who avoid drinking anything so they don't have to use a bathroom that males have access to.

What scenarios you cook up in your head are beyond anyone's external control. Are you going to lobby for no men allowed out in public after dark because you feeeel like they might be a threat to you personally?

You've told me your belief several times, yes. And again, you've taken your own belief and your own personal view to be sacrosanct, despite several females in this thread telling you that *we* view them as single-sex and also as intimate spaces.

I'm saying what they have informally been in practice, and what the law in my state and others says unequivocally that they are.

Why do you think that requiring males to use male spaces is scummy?
Why do you NOT think that requiring females to share such spaces with males against their will is treating females like second class citizens?

No. I think it will do nothing at all to you. I think this based on experience and data and an understanding that bad guys are brighter than the anti-trans brigade, and know they get no advantage from every eye in the place being on them, regardless of the policy.

 

[Thermal]

This argument of yours implicitly relies on the false assertion that nobody can tell who is male and who is female unless they see that person's genitals.

No. Jesus Christ, NO. It's the literal opposite. My argument is that you know who is male and female WITHOUT a genital iinspection. You.literally never have to know what is going on downstairs unless you are planning to bang them. Don't know, don't care.