Split Thread Diversity Equity and Inclusion and merit in employment etc

[bruto]

Negotiation? An academic institution negotiating with non-academics on how to run academia?

In any other field that would be ludicrous.

It's standard for right wing negotiation. Ask for something completely wrong, and accuse them of stubborn bad faith if they don't agree to half of it.

 

[theprestige]

It's standard for right wing negotiation. Ask for something completely wrong, and accuse them of stubborn bad faith if they don't agree to half of it.

The university can always turn down the funding if it doesn't like the terms. It's not like the university is entitled to that money, no questions asked.

 

[arthwollipot]

Yes, exactly. That's exactly how asking for other people's money works. Always has, always will, always should.

You seem to think private universities are entitled to taxpayer money without taxpayer oversight.

I don't seem to think it. I'm going to outright say it. Education is a human right (UDHR Article 26). Universities should be public, and free. They should not be subject to ideological controls over what they can and cannot teach. Universities - including foreign universities as you well know - have been defunded because they do not conform to the American administration's ideological opposition to so-called "DEI". That is ideological restriction. That is fascism. You're not allowed to teach unless you teach what we want you to teach and nothing else.

The university can always turn down the funding if it doesn't like the terms. It's not like the university is entitled to that money, no questions asked.

If I were ruler of the universe I would give them that money, no questions asked. I would pay for it by taxing the rich a fraction of their wealth and reducing military funding by a fraction of its budget. Neither would even notice the cost, and we would have an educated and prosperous population that isn't subjected to fascist authoritarian ideology.

 

[jt512]

Negotiation? An academic institution negotiating with non-academics on how to run academia?

In any other field that would be ludicrous.

Not in any other field receiving government funding. Universities can do whatever they want (within the law), but the government can attach whatever strings it wants (within the law) to federal funding. That means that some universities might need to make a choice.

 

[jt512]

If I were ruler of the universe I would give them that money, no questions asked. I would pay for it by taxing the rich a fraction of their wealth and reducing military funding by a fraction of its budget. Neither would even notice the cost, and we would have an educated and prosperous population that isn't subjected to fascist authoritarian ideology.

Actually, you would have a population that is brainwashed by left-authoritarian ideology.

 

[arthwollipot]

Actually, you would have a population that is brainwashed by left-authoritarian ideology.

Call it what you want. I don't care. You would have free health care, free education for your children, and free social programmes to help people with disabilities, all paid for by the wealthiest 1% of the population. If you think those things are bad, then you're a bad person. End of story.

 

[jt512]

Call it what you want. I don't care. You would have free health care, free education for your children, and free social programmes to help people with disabilities, all paid for by the wealthiest 1% of the population. If you think those things are bad, then you're a bad person. End of story.

Is every thread now just an opportunity for you to pontificate on your utopian vision?

 

[arthwollipot]

Is every thread now just an opportunity for you to pontificate on your utopian vision?

No, just this one. And you know the best thing? My "utopian" vision is completely possible if there is the political will for it. That's the world that I would want for my children, and that's the world that I advocate for. A world that recognises that there is strength in diversity. That there is fairness in equity. That there is justice in inclusion. And that makes these benefits accessible to all.

But those with money and power aren't interested in that. All they are interested in is money and power. They prefer conformity, because when everything's the same, it's easier to control. They prefer injustice, because justice and equity for all costs them and they would do anything they can to avoid that cost. They prefer segregation because when people band together, they are a threat to authoritarians.

 

[jt512]

Is every thread now just an opportunity for you to pontificate on your utopian vision?

No, just this one.

Just the DEI utopia thread, ok.

And you know the best thing? My "utopian" vision is completely possible if there is the political will for it. That's the world that I would want for my children, and that's the world that I advocate for. A world that recognises that there is strength in diversity. That there is fairness in equity. That there is justice in inclusion. And that makes these benefits accessible to all.

But those with money and power aren't interested in that. All they are interested in is money and power. They prefer conformity, because when everything's the same, it's easier to control. They prefer injustice, because justice and equity for all costs them and they would do anything they can to avoid that cost. They prefer segregation because when people band together, they are a threat to authoritarians.

Well, I guess if you think that DEI is the answer to everything, then anything can be on topic in a thread about DEI.

Funny thing is, come to think of it, DEI on US campuses hasn't led to utopia. It has led to mass antisemitism; racial and ideological discrimination in admissions and hiring; anonymous, Stasi-like denunciations; quashing of free speech and open inquiry; punishment of faculty, staff, and students on ideological grounds; and fear and self-censorship to an extent never before experienced in America, even during the McCarthy era. There is a wee disconnect between the utopia you think DEI should have produced and the Orwellian dystopia it actually has produced.

 

[johnny karate]

"Give us your money. Don't ask questions. You're not qualified to understand what we do with your money. Your elected representatives aren't qualified to inquire into our stewardship of your money. Just give us your money and shut up. We'll take care of the rest."

What inquiry has the Trump administration conducted into the colleges facing funding cuts in which they have refused to participate?

 

[Hercules56]

"Give us your money. Don't ask questions. You're not qualified to understand what we do with your money. Your elected representatives aren't qualified to inquire into our stewardship of your money. Just give us your money and shut up. We'll take care of the rest."

What does cultural diversity in college curriculum have to do with grants for scientific research into cancer cell development????

 

[Hercules56]

Yes, exactly. That's exactly how asking for other people's money works. Always has, always will, always should.

You seem to think private universities are entitled to taxpayer money without taxpayer oversight.

Yes, taxpayers have the right and responsibility to make sure their donations to colleges for cancer research are spent correctly. Has nothing to do with the college having courses dealing with cultural diversity.

 

[johnny karate]

Yes, exactly. That's exactly how asking for other people's money works. Always has, always will, always should.

You seem to think private universities are entitled to taxpayer money without taxpayer oversight.

What oversight has been conducted and who conducted it? Where can I access their findings?

 

[johnny karate]

The university can always turn down the funding if it doesn't like the terms. It's not like the university is entitled to that money, no questions asked.

What terms did the universities agree to before accepting the funding that they are now violating?

 

[Hercules56]

The university can always turn down the funding if it doesn't like the terms. It's not like the university is entitled to that money, no questions asked.

Since when can a federal grant be retroactively amended to include new requirements regarding college curriculum and hiring practises? Do the grants contain such stipulations?

 

[johnny karate]

Not in any other field receiving government funding. Universities can do whatever they want (within the law), but the government can attach whatever strings it wants (within the law) to federal funding. That means that some universities might need to make a choice.

What “strings” were attached to this funding? And by what legal process were these “strings” determined?

 

[Hercules56]

What “strings” were attached to this funding? And by what legal process were these “strings” determined?

Bet you $100 that the grants include NO language requiring certain academic or hiring policies or allowing for retroactive changes to the conditions of the grants. Grants are likely a legal agreement, and they cannot simply be changed years later.

 

[johnny karate]

Just the DEI utopia thread, ok.

Well, I guess if you think that DEI is the answer to everything, then anything can be on topic in a thread about DEI.

Funny thing is, come to think of it, DEI on US campuses hasn't led to utopia. It has led to mass antisemitism; racial and ideological discrimination in admissions and hiring; anonymous, Stasi-like denunciations; quashing of free speech and open inquiry; punishment of faculty, staff, and students on ideological grounds; and fear and self-censorship to an extent never before experienced in America, even during the McCarthy era. There is a wee disconnect between the utopia you think DEI should have produced and the Orwellian dystopia it actually has produced.

DEI has created an"Orwellian dystopian". What an absolutely insane take.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Say it in full. Don't weasel out of it: You're against Diversity. You're against Equity. You're against Inclusion.

Instead, you're in favour of Conformity, Injustice, and Segregation.

Stop maliciously mischaracterizing things. It's not convincing, and it really just makes you come across as childish.

 

[Ziggurat]

I don't seem to think it. I'm going to outright say it. Education is a human right (UDHR Article 26).

Leaving aside whether or not one agrees with that, it's only a right "in the elementary and fundamental stages." There is no human right to a university education under the UDHR. That would be stupid.

Universities should be public, and free.

But they aren't. If they were actually public, then the government wouldn't just be able to attach strings to funding, they could directly control those universities and simply impose their will. The universities wouldn't even have the option of forgoing public funding for independence.

They should not be subject to ideological controls over what they can and cannot teach.

All public institutions are subject to ideological control. I doubt you even consider that a bad thing, provided it's the correct ideology. For example, the idea that racial discrimination is bad is ideological. I agree with that ideology, and maybe you do too, but it's still ideological. And I want public institutions to operate according to that principle. The law requires them to.

If I were ruler of the universe I would give them that money, no questions asked.

Thank god you are not. That's about the stupidest thing you could ever do. When people are given money no questions asked, they tend to waste it.