Should sanctuary cities be tolerated?

Government protected companies propped up by company owned governments. And the home countries of those companies pressuring and even taking direct action on behalf of those countries.
 
Hercules56 said:
Our states are NOT sovereign when it comes to gun laws, gay marriage, civil rights, voting rights, worker rights, child labor, slavery, environmental laws, etc etc.
Basically are sovereign until the feds pass a law saying they are not.
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Kind of makes the 10th amendment meaningless then.

There is a funny thing that where state sovereignty does come up. If you want any of your official paperwork recognized by another nation, it goes through the State's Secretary of State. Who knew there was such a thing? The seem to mostly regulates business and stamp paperwork for other countries to recognize.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostille_Convention

Quite a pain in the ass but I guess better than it was before. In the US you have to get the local city or county clerk to stamp, say birth certificate as official (specifically for apostille) the send it to the State Secretary of State to get it appostilled.
 
Hercules56 said:
Huh?

They are free to leave at any time. Or not work. They arent slaves.
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sure, they can go sneak back to the places they fled from. Or just starve in our streets.

Do you honestly think these raids are really about stopping illegal immigration?
 
Donal said:
sure, they can go sneak back to the places they fled from. Or just starve in our streets.

Do you honestly think these raids are really about stopping illegal immigration?
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What else would they be about? Genocide?
 
...I already told you...

Slavery. Also, performative masculinity. These raids serve 2 purposes:

1) They let a bunch of underendowed smoothbrains feel tough by proxy. Nothing gets them a throbbing 3 inches better than seeing storm troopers with automatic weapons pushing around some brown folks.

2) it tells those brown folks to know their place. Don't complain about abuses or violations. Don't stick up for yourselves. Don't try and take advantage of any protections or services. Don't be part of our society. Shut up and be our silent labor class.

If they were serious about stopping illegal immigration, they'd be sending the storm troopers with automatic weapons into the offices and homes of the executives taking advantage of these people. ICE agents would be waving their SMGs in front of those rich families.

And they'd be using our State department to try and work with the countries these people are fleeing from to improve conditions there. Which the Biden administration was actually doing.
 
theprestige said:
Most of us do. Because most of us are here legally and have plenty of options for good workplaces. Some of us, however, choose to come here illegally, and live with the consequences of that choice. People aren't entitled to a decent job in America just because they exist.
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Any employer is responsible for safe working conditions regardless of the legality of the employment relationship.
Immigration status has nothing to do with it. This applies to the large number of U.S. citizens who work under the table jobs as well.
 
TomB said:
Any employer is responsible for safe working conditions regardless of the legality of the employment relationship.
Immigration status has nothing to do with it. This applies to the large number of U.S. citizens who work under the table jobs as well.
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Illegal workers should not be here.

Employers who hire them should go to jail.
 
we’ll be that as it may, they’re hiring and the immigrants are looking for work. i’d imagine it’s the path of least resistance to punish the weak and desperate for being victimized by the very government’s failure to ensure that kind of situation isn’t allowed to exist. one could even see that as a tacit endorsement of the exploitation of cheap labor. so i can understand why this is the approach they choose. but i don’t think going after the immigrants is the right or even prudent thing to do though. even if a certain group of voters find it personally satisfying

do we even want to touch on the contradictory economic policy of expelling labor, taxing imports to bring back manufacturing that needs cheap labor, and relying on imports to sustain through the transition?
 
TomB said:
Any employer is responsible for safe working conditions regardless of the legality of the employment relationship.
Immigration status has nothing to do with it. This applies to the large number of U.S. citizens who work under the table jobs as well.
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You lost me at "under the table jobs".
 
theprestige said:
You lost me at "under the table jobs".
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In my reckoning, hiring undocumented workers = malum prohibitum; treating workers inhumanely = malum in se. But I agree the overall best course of action is not to commit any malums at all.

All the non-citizen workers who work for me are properly documented. This is because they are highly trained people who are crucial to my business and I have a vested interest in keeping them lawfully in the United States and able to work. However, I did once work for a very large company back in the 1980s that employed at least one illegal alien. He was an architect from Wales.
 
ahhell said:
There is a funny thing that where state sovereignty does come up. If you want any of your official paperwork recognized by another nation, it goes through the State's Secretary of State. Who knew there was such a thing? The seem to mostly regulates business and stamp paperwork for other countries to recognize.
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I wouldn't call that a state sovereignty issue so much as a result of which powers lie where.

It's one of the reasons immigration is a mess in this country. The federal government is responsible for passing and enforcing immigration and naturalization law, but the states are responsible for things like birth records, which is the principle way that people establish their citizenship. Mistakes (and "mistakes") are bound to happen when that's the case.
 
theprestige said:
You lost me at "under the table jobs".
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Have you not heard that expression before? Means working off the books, probably an expression you also haven't heard. Someone paid in cash outside of normal book keeping so that the taxman doesn't know the transaction took place. Taxman being the person working for the government meant to ensure they get the taxes.

More common for illegal immigrants that citizens and legal immigrants but not unheard of in any case.
 
Hercules56 said:
Illegal workers should not be here.
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There are a lot of things that "should not be".

There should not be large numbers of people living in areas where the economy is so bad (caused in part by actions of european colonizers and the US) that they have to travel to another country to find work.

There should not be women forced to abandon their home countries because they are run by repressive islamic governments.

There should not be ukranians fleeing their country because Trump's boss thought Russia should invade Ukraine.

And the U.S. immigration system should not be so broken that people cannot find a legal way to immigrate and work in the U.S. (a situation that Biden attempted to remedy, but Trump and his Klan of boot-lickers in the republican party deliberately made worse.)

Of course, all those other 'should nots' are contributing to the fact that people consider living/working illegally in the US is better than the alternative.
Employers who hire them should go to jail.
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I believe the idea of increasing punishments for the employers of illegal workers was rejected by republicans, because it would negatively affect their base (rich people and farmers.)

Of course, farmers themselves are in a "no win" situation... employee illegal immigrants to harvest their crops (thus potentially breaking the law), or don't, and watch their farms suffer because they don't have workers to keep things running.
 
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