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Split Thread Diversity Equity and Inclusion and merit in employment etc

Hercules56 said:
I don't know about you but I don't believe that an employer is actually guilty of racial discrimination unless they have actually been brought to court.

Otherwise it is just baseless libel.

Anyone can accuse anyone of anything.

If you truly believe the accusation you bring it to court.

I can't believe anyone would accuse an employer of systemic racial discrimination and not file a lawsuit.

Such a situation would be very fishy. They would at least make an out of court settlement.
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Really? Is this really, honestly, truly what you believe?

Do you also believe that accusations of rape are not credible unless they are brought to court?
 
Hercules56 said:
Two very different issues.
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Really?
Hercules56 said:
I see no good and honest reason to not bring a racist employer to court or at least accept an out of court settlement.
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How about if that racist employer is known to hold a grudge, and knows other racist employers with similar views, and you are desperate for a job so that you can feed your family and suddenly nobody's willing to employ you?

There are lots of reasons why illegal conduct are never brought to justice. By some estimates 63% of violent crimes occurring in the US resulted in no arrests, no charges, and no referrals for prosecution. If that's the rate for violent crimes, what do you think the rate is for white-collar crime?

Say you're a black man in a small town in Alabama. You have proof that an employer did not employ you because you are black. Who do you take that to? Your white sheriff? Your white DA? Your white mayor? You've been wrongfully accused of crimes before. Do you think you'll get a fair hearing? Do you have confidence in the US justice system?

If you say you do, you're either lying or hopelessly naive. The justice system in the US sucks, especially if you're a member of a minority.
 
arthwollipot said:
Really?

How about if that racist employer is known to hold a grudge, and knows other racist employers with similar views, and you are desperate for a job so that you can feed your family and suddenly nobody's willing to employ you?

There are lots of reasons why illegal conduct are never brought to justice. By some estimates 63% of violent crimes occurring in the US resulted in no arrests, no charges, and no referrals for prosecution. If that's the rate for violent crimes, what do you think the rate is for white-collar crime?

Say you're a black man in a small town in Alabama. You have proof that an employer did not employ you because you are black. Who do you take that to? Your white sheriff? Your white DA? Your white mayor? You've been wrongfully accused of crimes before. Do you think you'll get a fair hearing? Do you have confidence in the US justice system?

If you say you do, you're either lying or hopelessly naive. The justice system in the US sucks, especially if you're a member of a minority.
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You have no idea what you are talking about. The "justice system" would not even come into play. Racial discrimination in employment is generally a violation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which is enforced by the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). If you are a victim of discrimination, you file a complaint with the EEOC, whose sole purpose is to protect people from discrimination in employment. They investigate the case, and if they find that you have been discriminated against, they will attempt to settle the case by mediation. If the employer refuses to cooperate, they will sue the employer in federal court. You can also file your own law suit in federal court. In any event, the sheriff, the DA, and the mayor have nothing to do with the process.
 
Studies which show that people with ethnic sounding names are less likely to be invited for job interviews than people with white sounding names, even when everything else on the CV is the same, cannot be used by any particular individual to sue any particular company for discrimination when they fail to get an interview. Individual cases would be damn near impossible to prove in a court of law. All they can prove is that claims that racial discrimination against ethnic minorities in job hiring is not only a thing of the past but has been replaced with discrimination against white applicants are total ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.
 
Pixel42 said:
Studies which show that people with ethnic sounding names are less likely to be invited for job interviews than people with white sounding names, even when everything else on the CV is the same, cannot be used by any particular individual to sue any particular company for discrimination when they fail to get an interview. Individual cases would be damn near impossible to prove in a court of law. All they can prove is that claims that racial discrimination against ethnic minorities in job hiring is not only a thing of the past but has been replaced with discrimination against white applicants are total ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.
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They could show that they were better qualified for the job than the person who got it; that, statistically, the company's hiring evidenced racial discrimination; or that there was evidence, such as email communications (which can be subpoenaed), that they were not hired because of their race, just to name three possibilities that come immediately to mind.

Also, as I have stated before, I really wonder whether the totality of the evidence you mention really shows what you say it shows. The reason I question it is that people who cling to the claim that there is bias against women in academic STEM positions, a body of evidence that I am familiar with, are always citing evidence from similarly designed CV studies. It turns out, however, that there was ever only one such study that showed anti-female bias. That study was old and small. Every subsequent study, all of which were larger, actually showed that the bias was in favor of women.
 
arthwollipot said:
Really?

How about if that racist employer is known to hold a grudge, and knows other racist employers with similar views, and you are desperate for a job so that you can feed your family and suddenly nobody's willing to employ you?

There are lots of reasons why illegal conduct are never brought to justice. By some estimates 63% of violent crimes occurring in the US resulted in no arrests, no charges, and no referrals for prosecution. If that's the rate for violent crimes, what do you think the rate is for white-collar crime?

Say you're a black man in a small town in Alabama. You have proof that an employer did not employ you because you are black. Who do you take that to? Your white sheriff? Your white DA? Your white mayor? You've been wrongfully accused of crimes before. Do you think you'll get a fair hearing? Do you have confidence in the US justice system?

If you say you do, you're either lying or hopelessly naive. The justice system in the US sucks, especially if you're a member of a minority.
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You're clearly not familiar with the US justice system. Or are you still think it's 1962.
 
jt512 said:
They could show that they were better qualified for the job than the person who got it; that, statistically, the company's hiring evidenced racial discrimination; or that there was evidence, such as email communications (which can be subpoenaed), that they were not hired because of their race, just to name three possibilities that come immediately to mind.

Also, as I have stated before, I really wonder whether the totality of the evidence you mention really shows what you say it shows. The reason I question it is that people who cling to the claim that there is bias against women in academic STEM positions, a body of evidence that I am familiar with, are always citing evidence from similarly designed CV studies. It turns out, however, that there was ever only one such study that showed anti-female bias. That study was old and small. Every subsequent study, all of which were larger, actually showed that the bias was in favor of women.
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Anti-vax Trump voter has thoughts about the validity of scientific studies.
 
arthwollipot said:
Every accusation is a confession.
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I don't accept that an employer, or school, or public establishment, or housing is guilty of racial discrimination unless the issue has been brought to court.

Issue can be settled out of court, but it must be taken seriously and brought to court.
 
Hercules56 said:
I don't accept that an employer, or school, or public establishment, or housing is guilty of racial discrimination unless the issue has been brought to court.

Issue can be settled out of court, but it must be taken seriously and brought to court.
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That you seem to be under the impression this hasn't happened is, like so many of the opinions you express, laugh-out-loud hysterical.
 
johnny karate said:
That you seem to be under the impression this hasn't happened is, like so many of the opinions you express, laugh-out-loud hysterical.
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Ad hom attacks are pathetic.

Accusing someone of racial discrimination in their policy, but refusing to go to a court to take action, is slander and libel... And such a person should be sued in court. Personally, Id sue their ass off if they just wanted to throw around accusations without actually taking legal action. Or just spamming social media with false accusations.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Ad hom attacks are pathetic.

Accusing someone of racial discrimination in their policy, but refusing to go to a court to take action, is slander and libel... And such a person should be sued in court. Personally, Id sue their ass off if they just wanted to throw around accusations without actually taking legal action. Or just spamming social media with false accusations.
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By this logic, the companies named in the studies I cited should be suing the people who published the study. Did they? Because if they didn't - again, by your own logic - no slander or libel took place.
 
johnny karate said:
By this logic, the companies named in the studies I cited should be suing the people who published the study. Did they? Because if they didn't - again, by your own logic - no slander or libel took place.
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They should sue.

Such an allegation without seeking legal action is fraud and libel.
 
Hercules56 said:
They should sue.

Such an allegation without seeking legal action is fraud and libel.
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An absence of legal action means racial discrimination did not take place.

But an absence of legal action also means fraud and libel did take place.

Top-notch critical thinking on display here. :thumbsup:
 
bruto said:
You say they should sue, but they didn't. Is there really no connection in your mind between that and the question of whether others in other situations should sue but didn't?
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I consider violations of the civil Rights act to be much more serious than libel laws.

Violations of the civil Rights act affect us all. And should be taken very seriously. Not simply used to slander somebody on Facebook.
 
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