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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Ziggurat said:
A non-functional reproductive system is still a reproductive system.

And once again, this debate has nothing to do with DSD. Transpeople generally don't have DSDs, people with DSDs aren't generally trans, and we aren't discussing accommodations on the basis of having a DSD but on the basis of identifying as trans. So don't try bringing up that ◊◊◊◊ again.
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There's another thread for that
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Thermal said:
And that point was...what? That this kind of thing happens with or without trans policy one way or the other? OK. Good point!
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Stop being deliberately silly, and stop feigning ignorance! You know exactly what EC's point was...

There is NO WAY to tell the difference between a "true transwoman", one who genuinely believes they are really a woman, and the vile, misogynistic individual who wants to enter women's safe spaces for nefarious reasons.
 
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smartcooky said:
Stop being deliberately silly, and stop feigning ignorance! You know exactly what EC's point was...

There is NO WAY to tell the difference between a "true transwoman", one who genuinely believes they are really a woman, and the vile, misogynistic individual who wants to enter women's safe spaces for nefarious reasons.
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I've never yet met an example of this delicate flower who just wants to pee. I've met plenty of the other sort. It colours my opinion somewhat.
 
Mycroft said:
Wow, this thread sure has moved a lot. I have some chores to do, so no way I can catch up right now.

In the meantime, look what I've found?


While some of the answers here align with the TERF point of view, much more of them align with what was happening with my informal poll. Although not scientific, certainly indicative.
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You're citing quora? Really?
 
Poll after poll demonstrates that the more the respondents are aware of the implications of what they're being asked, the less willing they are to agree that "transwomen" should have the legal right to use women's single-sex facilities. Also that successive polls in the same populations show agreement decreasing steadily with time, as people wise up to what's going on.
 
Rolfe said:
I've never yet met an example of this delicate flower who just wants to pee. I've met plenty of the other sort. It colours my opinion somewhat.
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acbytesla said:
That has always been the argument for taking rights away from a minority.
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It's not clear to me that being treated as female whenever they want is a right males have or should have.

It's also not clear to me that social transition is a right gender dysphorics have or should have. Mainly because it's not clear to me that social transition has been established as good medicine for that condition.

Are either of these the kind of rights you had in mind?


Incidentally, women are not a minority. So technically your position only makes sense if you agree that transwomen are not women, but rather a minority of men who need some kind of accommodation for reasons that have not been well examined or well explained.


Also, haven't you already agreed with a policy of sex segregation in sports? If trans-identifying males can get by without women's sports, they can get by without women's restrooms, don't you think?

Either the male right or to override sex segregation whenever he wants is there, or it isn't. You can't pick and choose when to recognize it - not without a good explanation for the inconsistency.
 
Thermal said:
It says more about where you like to hang out, if so many unpleasant people are around and no nice ones.

Eta: I wonder what those "other sorts" would say about their experience of meeting you? Your attitude here suggests strongly that you meet them with utter contempt. Are you sure it's a "them" thing?
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Plenty nice people. Also, it's not necessary to be a delicate flower to be nice. About 50% of the transwomen I know are nice people. They're just not delicate flowers. They're perfectly capable of standing up for themselves.
 
Rolfe said:
This was only to be expected. These people have been so steeped in this nonsense
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Understandable - they have been lied to.... consistently and repeatedly.... by Stonewall, by Mermaids, by ideologically captured health professionals, by governmental organizations, by politicians, by the Police and many others.

Transgender people haven't lost any of the rights under discussions here.... they never had any of them to begin with

Rolfe said:
There has to be continuing pressure from the sex-realist side of this to ensure that the supertanker completes its 180° turn as quickly and in as good order as possible, but it's going to take a lot of effort and probably some high-profile legal cases.
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Sex-realists are trying to turn the Titanic around. Meanwhile, the trans rights activist band is oblivious and still playing, and their enablers are rearranging the deck chairs!
 
smartcooky said:
Seriously, what's not to mock?

When I first saw that photo, I thought "This is some guy taking the piss, surely?"
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Dude... that's so much worse. You seriously don't see that someone taking the piss and putting on "transface" for you to mock, and you chiming right in, is exponentially worse???

You guys have been hiding in this thread too long. You don't even see what you are doing anymore.
 
acbytesla said:
I'm really curious. Just how often do women go into a public restroom and find a trans-person in there? My guess is almost never. And are they really sure of that person's biological sex? And was it an inconvenience? How did they adjust? Did they leave and come back? Did they stay and use another stall?
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It's happened to me twice that I know of, though not recently since I now use the disabled facilities which tend to be single separate units. Both times I left and waited (some distance away) until they left as I felt unsafe; they were much bigger than me, and appeared to me to be deliberately intimidating.

I have also had the misfortune of encountering a male claiming to be a trans woman though appearing male in every way in my local gym changing rooms As there was nothing I could do about it, I cancelled my membership.
 
theprestige said:
Either the male right or to override sex segregation whenever he wants is there, or it isn't. You can't pick and choose when to recognize it - not without a good explanation for the inconsistency.
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That, I think, is the reason that Lady Falkner and the EHRC extrapolated the SC ruling about being able to exclude very masculine-appearing men from female single-sex spaces, which was presented in the context of a rape crisis centre, across the board. If it's accepted that these women's appearance is might cause "reasonable objection" to their presence in one context, that must be applicable to any context within the EA.
 
Mycroft said:
Again, which is why you prefer sex over gender.
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Yes I do, because biological sex is a scientific fact while gender is a social construct, so scientifically, its fiction

I make no apology for following the science and preferring facts over fiction.
 
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Rolfe said:
Plenty nice people. Also, it's not necessary to be a delicate flower to be nice. About 50% of the transwomen I know are nice people. They're just not delicate flowers. They're perfectly capable of standing up for themselves.
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The groups he mentioned were not delicate flowers and people who stand up for themselves. It was a transwoman wanting to use the restroom and vile, misogynistic perverts. You claim to spend a lot more time with the latter.
 
zooterkin said:
How are you going to ensure that trans men are not being asked to leave women's bathrooms?
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As far as I can tell, accidentally ejecting masculine women from the women's restroom has never really been a problem that needs solving. If it ever was a problem, it seems that women got it sorted long ago.
 
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