smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
"When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination"
- Thomas Sowell
Transwomen are not Women - Part 15
- Thread starter d4m10n
- Start date
- Thomas Sowell
Rolfe
Adult human female
I saw a good analogy today. The reaction of the trans lobby to recent events is as if they'd been telling everyone for years that the speed limit on a particular section of road was 60 mph. It has finally been clarified that it's 40 mph and has been all along. Their reaction is to bewail this sudden change, carry on about how inconvenient it is for them and for everyone they misled, and suggest that maybe they'll just carry on assuming it's 60 mph anyway.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I don't anticipate many such cases, if any. The judgement is so clear and so comprehensive that most complainers will simply be told that they don't have a case.
I do foresee cases brought under the sex discrimination heading against venues that have already labelled all their toilets as mixed sex. This has been widely disliked by almost everyone, and was always clearly illegal, but so vicious was the anti-woman bias until about ten days ago that nobody really pushed it. (I know a lot of people wrote to the venues to protest, but didn't take it further when they got the standard, lying response about being inclusive of everybody.) Venues include the Donmar Warehouse in London, the Mermaid Theatre in Colchester, the Traverse Theatre in Glasgow and the Dundee Rep.
It's still not clear how it will play out. The people doing this are so marinated in gender gufferywoo I think it's going to take them a while to wake up and smell the coffee. We're still in the denial stage, and a lot of them are writing guidelines that continue to misrepresent the law and more of them are pointing to these guidelines as justification for carrying on as before. (The state of the Girl Guides is a sight to behold.)
The next stage though will include taking proper legal advice. There are still activist lawyers in a state of denial who are giving incorrect advice, but this surely can't last long given the clarity of the guidelines. I'm not sure many of these cases will get as far as the courts. In Scotland it has already been accepted that school toilets that don't comply with the law will have to be changed.
Rolfe
Adult human female
That web site is quite old. The term, coiled as a slur, was gradually adopted by women. It has acquired grammar. "I'm going out to do some terfing." The plural may be terfs, but when organised, it's terven. I think we'll keep it.
What takeaway - that the SC has settled the meaning of women in the Equality act to mean biological women? I think you’ll find I’m not alone with that “takeaway”.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
The post I was referring to was clearly a follow up to your earlier post in which you claimed the SCOTUK ruling meant you now have Self ID. That is a unique takeaway.
It's effectively said that a GRC doesn't add much to self-ID regarding being trans. Being recognised as trans is important regarding allegations of discrimination on the grounds of gender ID; exactly what might count as discrimination on that basis may have to be established in future court cases. What has been clarified is that being recognised as trans does not mean you are then legally of the opposite sex to your biological sex.
While I have similar feelings about marginalized people, ultimately the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
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Rolfe
Adult human female
Not if they are accommodated accordingly, with their own wing, and where the GPP have no access to them.
Prison bosses buy a £10,000 games wall - and inmates don't even use it
The specialist unit at Downview women's jail in Sutton, Surrey was opened in 2019 after Karen White sexually assaulted two female inmates at HMP New Hall.www.dailymail.co.uk
I make no guarantee about how they will treat each other though.
Unfortunately, that wing is attached to a women's prison. This has to change.
One of the consequences of what's been going on for the past ten years is the growth of a legion of highly intelligent, extremely well-informed and formidably organised women who are fully clued-up about what the law was all along, and are standing ready to hold the feet of any public body or organisation that doesn't comply to the fire. This just came out today.
Scottish Prison Service policy: a stain on Scotland's reputation - Murray Blackburn Mackenzie
Call for urgent Ministerial action We have written to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice. In the absence of immediate action by the Scottish Prison Service (SPS), it now falls on Scottish Ministers to use its powers to direct the SPS to operate lawfully, meet its statutory obligations under the...
murrayblackburnmackenzie.org
They outline the law as it is and always was, but highlight how a change in terminology in 2011 from "sex" to "gender" allowed unlawful policies to be introduced by sleight of hand. In particular the hypocrisy of talking about a "trauma-informed service" aware of the high percentage of incarcerated women who are hypersensitive to perceived threat due to past trauma, while forcing them to share their living space with men convicted of violent offences. It's quite a list.
No Isla Bryson, because he was headed off from the female estate en route due to public outcry, or Andrew Miller (Amy George) because he was tried and convicted as a man. There are quite a few other trans-identifying male convicts in the male estate but I don't have any details on that. Andrew Burns (Tiffany Scott) was said to be the most violent, uncontrollable prisoner in Scotland. He spent quite some time petitioning to be moved to the female estate and this was on the point of happening, more than once. However, he is now dead, thankfully. (He never looked as if he was trying to present female in any pictures shown and I'm pretty sure that the trans identity was just another scheme in his evil, psychopathic mind, but under the policy of self-ID that was in force at the time his claim had to be accepted unquestioningly.)
Scotland is a small country of about 5.5 million people. The sheer number of these cases is startling to me, considering how we're always told how tiny the trans "community" is, and how extremely unrepresentative the rapists and murderers are of that community. Indeed, some of these men are no doubt suffering from "prison-onset gender dysphoria", but that's a large part of the point. If anyone who simply declares that they're trans must be accepted as trans without question, the danger of something like Andrew Burns happening should be self-evident. But Stonewall brainwashing has insisted that he is as valid a transwoman as anyone else and it's bigotry and transphobia to deny any request he makes. The SPS was and still probably is fully signed up to Stonewall Law.
We have a hell of a lot of work to do to row back over ten years of mission creep by gender activists, many embedded right at the heart of the SG. Toilets in shops, restaurants, pubs, cinemas, theatres, leisure centres and so on. Toilets in schools. Who gets to sleep with whom on overnight trips. Changing rooms. Sports. Prisons. One of the most serious issues is the embedding of genderwoo in the school curriculum, not just sex education lessons for older children but right through the curriculum so that parents couldn't opt out, and going right down to primary and even nursery school, where children who can barely tie their own shoelaces are being taught that they can choose which sex they want to be, and given reading material including teddy-bears with mastectomy scars. And I've probably missed things.
The public sphere is infested with activists - teachers, police officers, librarians, councillors, they're all over the place. Most seem genuinely brainwashed in the "sex is a spectrum, born in the wrong body, most marginalised people on the planet" nonsense. But still, most people are not infected with the rot. However, there has been a climate of fear in the country for getting on for ten years. Such was the fury and violence of the trans lobby, and its close connection with the government, that anyone speaking out against it was in real danger. People watched what they said. A colleague messaged me just before I retired, saying he was afraid for his job if he said anything, although to the best of my knowledge our employer had not been captured. I twice had to travel to semi-secret meetings to be approved as a member of feminist groups, so fearful were they of infiltration and harrassment. When big meetings were planned, the venue would only be confirmed to attendees a few hours before the start to try to minimise the number of screaming trans-activists who would turn up to disrupt it - and we knew that any police presence would be nominal, allowing the screaming pastel-haired hordes to get right in our faces, and turning a blind eye to any assaults.
There is a feeling of immense relief now, that we don't have to go on looking over our shoulders quite so much, and that the members of officialdom who have previously brushed aside every concern are going to have to take a different attitude. It's going to be like turning round a supertanker, but the daughters of the witches they couldn't burn are up for it, and we'll get there.
Oh, lovely! I was just about to press "Post", and the radio has just started to play "March of the Women" by Ethel Smythe, intercut by speeches by Emmeline Pankhurst. I feel a small tear coming on.
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Rolfe
Adult human female
Not only that, the idea that the "trans community" is marginalised is absolutely ludicrous.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I think there are two aspects. One is that someone who is and is perceived to be in the category of having gender reassignment may not be treated less favourably than someone else of the same sex who does not have the category of gender reassignment. The other is that someone who is (mistakenly) perceived to be the sex they are presenting as, and who is then treated less favourably because of that perception, also has a case for discrimination.
What is not correct, and this may be the main take-home message from this part of the judgement, is that someone who has the protected category of gender reassignment can claim discrimination if he (it's usually he) is treated differently from someone of the sex he is trying to impersonate, on the basis of that impersonation. Thank God fasting.
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2012
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That has always been the argument for taking rights away from a minority.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Nobody is taking rights away from transgender people. They have, and will continue to have, exactly the same rights as everybody else. It's the additional rights which they (or rather TRAs) are demanding, which trample all over long existing women's rights, which are being refused.
I have neve heard it so much as one time.
Rolfe
Adult human female
That's not the same thing. This has been discussed before, and there are multiple reasons for these findings. But sorry, the minority that has most of the public sphere decking itself out in its flag, police cars being painted in its colours, policemen wearing its lanyard, unprecedented access to government to have laws and guidelines changed in its favour and anyone who expresses a contrary opinion intimidated into silence, is not marginalised.
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acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
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Jim Crow, Not giving women the right to vote. Americans stole land from native Americans and put them on reservations.
Thermal
August Member
The trick is determining who actually needs what, and who is just being unpleasant and unreasonable. Since the extremes of both sides represent themselves that way, it's a hard balancing act.
Do women actually need to kick the rare transwoman out? Not really. Does a biologically intact transwoman need to be in a restroom that doesn't have urinals? Not really. If they are okay with their body as-is, there should be no issue with being around others with similar bodies.
Rolfe
Adult human female
There may well be times when "the rare transwoman" will not be asked to leave a women's bathroom. The important thing is that women must retain the right to ask any male to leave, for any reason or none. Otherwise any man who likes can come in with no repercussions. This has been explained multiple times.
When we're discussing changing rooms, showers, dormitories, athletics events, rape counselling sessions, hospital wards.... For goodness sake, get a grip.
Graham2001
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,771
That seems to be the thrust of this commentary on the 'Unherd' website:
Gender recognition certificates are now meaningless