Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[d4m10n]

Does that factor for people who became trans after being caught?

Everyone in the alien spaceship has already been caught, twice.

If we're debating prison policies back on Earth, though, I don't think anyone is suggesting transition should only matter if it happens early on.

 

[Emily's Cat]

It's hateful because it judges all transpeople by the behavior of the worst of them. Everyone can be demonized by that standard.

It's really only a very few of the very worst priests who diddled kids. It's totally not fair to judge the catholic church as a whole for the behavior of just the worst priests.

It's really only a very few of the very worst cops who are racists. It's totally not fair to judge the entire law enforcement system for the behavior of the very worst of them.

 

[Mycroft]

Everyone in the alien spaceship has already been caught, twice.

Then we have to look at rates of recidivism too.

 

[Thermal]

Maybe someday the United States will move away from third world prisons and protect all prisoners from rape. That would take away the incentive to game the system in this way.

I'm actually surprised it happens as often as it does, given that you wouldn't expect prison inmates to have a lot of unsupervised free time.

In my local lockup, it doesn't really happen, so I'm told by former inmates. Sex is actually available on barter more than you would think. But then again, they are not 'lifers' who have little to lose.

 

[d4m10n]

Then we have to look at rates of recidivism too.

If we're debating prison policies back on Earth, I don't think anyone is suggesting that gender transition should only matter if it happens early on.

 

[Emily's Cat]

There are other cultures which don't see sex or gender as a binary. Their points of view are just as valid as yours.

There are other cultures which see the world as having been created by god from nothing, and see evolution as a falsehood perpetrated by the devil. Do you think their points of view are as valid as yours?

 

[theprestige]

What have I suggested so far?

Honestly, I'm not sure. This thread is moving pretty fast, and you've been all over the place - especially when asked for clear answers to concrete questions. You said gender dysphoria was a hoax, then later brought it up as something to consider when accommodating trans people. You chided people for inferring what you thought, and then chided them for not inferring what you thought.

So it would be a great boon to this discussion, if you could quickly summarize your suggested policy for us. Thanks in advance.

 

[Ziggurat]

Okay, so they're not trying to gain access to public toilets, but women's prisons.

As far as I know that doesn't work in the United States. Does it work elsewhere?

Once again, you demonstrate how little you actually know the facts surrounding these issues, because it does work like that in some places in the US.

Laws vary state to state, and they aren't all the same, but in California the law actually does allow self-declared transwomen to be housed in a women's prison. About a third of the male inmates requesting housing in women's prison are registered sex offenders. And there has been at least one high profile case where a transgender-identifying male housed in a women's prison raped a woman inmate.

 

[theprestige]

Maybe someday the United States will move away from third world prisons and protect all prisoners from rape. That would take away the incentive to game the system in this way.

You know what else would take away the incentive to game the system in this way? Foreclosing this option as a way to game the system. That's something we can do, right now, today, to make the world a better place, without having to wait for the advent of Utopia.

 

[Emily's Cat]

When you say "males", you mean transwomen.

When I say males, I mean males. How they choose to dress or adorn themselves is entirely irrelevant to the objective fact of their sex.

 

[Ziggurat]

Did their transition involve anything more than just self-ID?

What does it matter? What kind of transition should be required? What kind of transition would suffice?

Bryson dresses like a woman. Is that enough? Should Bryson be allowed to use the women's bathroom? It's a very simple question, I'm not sure why you're incapable of answering.

 

[Mycroft]

It's really only a very few of the very worst priests who diddled kids. It's totally not fair to judge the catholic church as a whole for the behavior of just the worst priests.

I wouldn't judge all priests by the handful of diddlers, but I would judge the Church for protecting them.

It's really only a very few of the very worst cops who are racists. It's totally not fair to judge the entire law enforcement system for the behavior of the very worst of them.

When the good cops start putting the bad cops in jail, then we can talk about good cops versus bad cops.

It's really only a few Jews who are sex predators or fraudsters, not all Jews should be judged by Weinstein or Madoff.

It's really only a few black people who are sex predators or murders, not all black people should be judged by Bill Cosby or O.J. Simpson.

It's really only a few clowns who eat people, not every clown should be judged by John Wayne Gacy.

 

[Mycroft]

When I say males, I mean males. How they choose to dress or adorn themselves is entirely irrelevant to the objective fact of their sex.

Did you say recently you don't mind sharing a woman's bathroom with a sincere transwoman?

 

[theprestige]

I wouldn't judge all priests by the handful of diddlers, but I would judge the Church for protecting them.



When the good cops start putting the bad cops in jail, then we can talk about good cops versus bad cops.

And now you understand how and why I judge the TRA movement for protecting misogynists and predators, at the expense of women and people who actually suffer from gender dysphoria.

 

[Mycroft]

What does it matter? What kind of transition should be required? What kind of transition would suffice?

That would be a discussion, wouldn't it? Except you just dismissed it with, what does it matter?

Bryson dresses like a woman. Is that enough? Should Bryson be allowed to use the women's bathroom? It's a very simple question, I'm not sure why you're incapable of answering.

I reject the idea that Bryson represents all trans-people. Cherry-picking a scary trans-person and using them to represent all trans-people is bigoted fear-mongering and I will not participate.

 

[Mycroft]

And now you understand how and why I judge the TRA movement for protecting misogynists and predators, at the expense of women and people who actually suffer from gender dysphoria.

You forgot this part:

It's really only a few Jews who are sex predators or fraudsters, not all Jews should be judged by Weinstein or Madoff.

It's really only a few black people who are sex predators or murders, not all black people should be judged by Bill Cosby or O.J. Simpson.

It's really only a few clowns who eat people, not every clown should be judged by John Wayne Gacy.

 

[Mycroft]

When I say males, I mean males. How they choose to dress or adorn themselves is entirely irrelevant to the objective fact of their sex.

You're talking about transwomen. I'm a male, but I don't want to use the woman's bathroom.

 

[Emily's Cat]

If you delay puberty until adulthood you can change your mind with few consequences.

This is unforgivably false. There are SIGNIFICANT consequences.

 

[Mycroft]

Honestly, I'm not sure.

Then you should speak to your own opinions and not mine.

You said gender dysphoria was a hoax...

Nope. Didn't say that.

You chided people for inferring what you thought, and then chided them for not inferring what you thought.

I corrected people who tried to build straw-men for me, and I chided people for being obtuse on purpose.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Watch how easy it is:

Bob, a cis male, decides he wants to exploit the self ID loophole and enter a women's restroom, in search of vulnerable prey.

He is confronted while doing so, and despite not identifying as a woman, he claims to in order to avoid penalty. He deliberately misrepresented himself with the intent to maliciously deceive. He lied, by any definition.

Where did you bog down in the above?

Where I bog down is...

How do you know Bob lied? How is it possible for anyone to know that Bob lied?