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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

This law didn't stop the police from taking statements and prosecuting this person, did it?
As you may well have forgotten by now, I was trying to explain why Wi Spa would initially defend their decision to allow someone blessed with all the feminine grace and form of Danny Trejo (without lipstick) into the space where females expect to encounter each other in the nude. My hypothesis was that they (Wi Spa) were addled by "political correctness…like an ocean tide that sweeps away all common sense."

What's your best guess?
 
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Trans-people touch on a very primal taboo. One just isn't allowed to blur gender lines, much less cross them entirely.

If they look weird they can be hated, amiright?
Once again, you demonstrate that you don't understand any of this stuff. The issue was never crossing gender lines. Blair White crosses gender lines entirely. She isn't creepy at all. Nor is it about looks, it's about behavior. And yeah, the behavior I'm referring to is creepy as ◊◊◊◊.
 
Humans, and then separately woman humans (hence the "too")? Could you make it any more obvious that for you, like many men, your default notion of humans = males?

Larger group which includes everyone, then the smaller group which includes only a part of the larger group.

Nice mental gymnastics, though. But I suggest you take responsibility for communicating your own ideas rather than trying to shape my ideas into something you like better.
 
Why is that important? The prison might not have bought it, but under self ID (which the UK now seems to be pulling back from), that doesn't matter, he's still trans because he says he's trans. Would it really make any difference if he started identifying as trans before he started raping? Why?
Your side's argument relies on the difference. We are constantly being told "look how vile and dangerous these trannys are", but when you actually look at the stories, they were not trans. They are stories of everyday lowlife 'cis-het' rapists. Opportunistic transitioning is a thing, and using a rapist who is trying to game the system is a far cry from posting over and over "what these guys are really like'.
 
Once again, you demonstrate that you don't understand any of this stuff. The issue was never crossing gender lines. Blair White crosses gender lines entirely. She isn't creepy at all. Nor is it about looks, it's about behavior. And yeah, the behavior I'm referring to is creepy as ◊◊◊◊.

The behavior you label "creepy as ◊◊◊◊" is only creepy because it's trans-women doing it. If it were cis-women doing it you would just see people having fun.

Blair White is okay with you? Figures.
 
Why is that important? The prison might not have bought it, but under self ID (which the UK now seems to be pulling back from), that doesn't matter, he's still trans because he says he's trans. Would it really make any difference if he started identifying as trans before he started raping? Why?

After they have served their sentence, they have to be. But we can still insist that as a male, Bryson has to use the men's bathroom.

Maybe we could get back to Andrew Miller/Amy George. But he's just another cherry.

Or Katie Dolatowski. Another cherry.
 
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Against the objections of all three of them?

I think when trans-people are being accused of thought-crimes, such as wanting to use the bathroom to "get their jollies" is hateful. I think anytime you have to assume what a person is thinking you're on thin ice.

We don't need to assume. Plenty of them are entirely open about it.
 
Maybe we could get back to Andrew Miller/Amy George. But he's just another cherry.

Or Katie Dolatowski. Another cherry.
Yeah, it's funny how with millions of transwomen in the world, just those same few names keep getting held up. That's the very definition of cherry picking.

Eta: when you try to post a long (but equally statistically vanishing) list of names, they are found to be a bunch of lies. It really should make you stop and think about what you are doing.
 
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The behavior you label "creepy as ◊◊◊◊" is only creepy because it's trans-women doing it. If it were cis-women doing it you would just see people having fun.
You know not of what you speak.
Blair White is okay with you? Figures.
For all I know, Bryson is OK with you, because you won't actually answer direct questions.
 
Aliens abduct 100,000 convicted sex offenders, none of whom were wrongly convicted (these specific aliens can extract episodic memory with relative ease) for the sake of a large-scale experiment in humane reeducation.

How many would you guess are female?

I would expect a ratio of about 13:1, but there is a question of sex offenses by women being under-reported, so the aliens taking convicted people will probably not get a representative of the population as a whole.

How many do you think would be trans?
 
Your side's argument relies on the difference.
The fact that you can become trans after having committed sexual offenses is one of the the prime examples that support doing away with self ID.
We are constantly being told "look how vile and dangerous these trannys are", but when you actually look at the stories, they were not trans.
Under self ID, Bryson is absolutely trans. There is zero grounds to claim he isn't trans. You have to come up with some standard other than self ID if you want to say he's not authentic. I'm not sure why you're struggling with that fact.
They are stories of everyday lowlife 'cis-het' rapists. Opportunistic transitioning is a thing,
No ◊◊◊◊ it's a thing! That's what we've been saying! That's why self ID is a massive ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ problem, precisely because of opportunistic transitioning! This isn't a fact that undermines my position, it's at the heart of what I'm saying. How can you still not get that?

ETA: I'm still stunned by this. Seriously, the biggest complaint against self ID is PRECISELY that it incentivizes opportunistic transitioning from predators. I've been saying this from the start, and Bryson is hardly the only example. It boggles the mind that you think this is some sort of gotcha.
 
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You know not of what you speak.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. What about their behavior would still be "creepy as ◊◊◊◊" if it were cis-women doing it?

For all I know, Bryson is OK with you, because you won't actually answer direct questions.

Yes, I'm refusing to be bullied into having the conversation you want.

I refuse to accept your paradigms as my own. I refuse to accept only your definitions. I refuse to allow you to force my ideas into a box of your making, so you can take me down a path of your choosing, to a conclusion of your liking. I see your path and I see your conclusion, but I also see an entire landscape of ideas worth exploring.
 
The fact that you can become trans after having committed sexual offenses is one of the the prime examples that support doing away with self ID.

You've been saying self-ID is bad for at least dozens of pages now, and probably for a lot longer than that.

What are the alternatives to self-ID?
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong. What about their behavior would still be "creepy as ◊◊◊◊" if it were cis-women doing it?
I'll try to find the video at some point, it's rather hard to describe just how creepy they are. Might take some time. But yeah, you're wrong.
Yes, I'm refusing to be bullied into having the conversation you want.

I refuse to accept your paradigms as my own. I refuse to accept only your definitions. I refuse to allow you to force my ideas into a box of your making, so you can take me down a path of your choosing, to a conclusion of your liking. I see your path and I see your conclusion, but I also see an entire landscape of ideas worth exploring.
That's bull ◊◊◊◊. This has nothing to do with paradigms. It's a very simple, very straight forward, real world question. Should Bryson be allowed to use the women's bathroom? You are free to use whatever paradigms, whatever definitions you want. But if your ideas cannot handle this very basic real-world questions, then your ideas aren't connected to the real world, and frankly aren't worth discussing.
 
You've been saying self-ID is bad for at least dozens of pages now, and probably for a lot longer than that.

What are the alternatives to self-ID?
One alternative is segregation based on biological sex, no exceptions. That's the simplest one. Another alternative would be to allow those who have had full surgical transitions (a bit of a misnomer) to transcend that segregation. Another would be to allow those on hormone therapy to transcend that segregation. Another alternative would be to allow those with professional diagnosis of gender dysphoria and who are undergoing professional treatment (medical and/or psychological) to transcend that segregation. I'm sure you could come up with more variations. There are multiple alternatives other than self ID. Whether or not you prefer any of these alternatives, the existence of these alternatives should be obvious. Were they not obvious to you?
 
ETA: I'm still stunned by this. Seriously, the biggest complaint against self ID is PRECISELY that it incentivizes opportunistic transitioning from predators. I've been saying this from the start, and Bryson is hardly the only example. It boggles the mind that you think this is some sort of gotcha.
Well lets break out the crayons yet again and you can show me exactly where it gets too complicated.

I believe you can self ID your gender in almost all circmstances, yet still have sex segregated spaces where gender doesn't apply. This relies on sharply defining sex and gender.

Opportunistic transitioning in a prison becomes pointless, as it would gain no benefit.

Opportunistic transitioning for street attacks isn't statistically a thing. We have data presented in states where gender doors are already open. That particular boogeyman is pretty much imaginary.

I have said all this multiple times, so to borrow your phrase, it's been explained to you, and you have no excuse for feigning being 'stunned'.

Can you show me where you are bogging down?
 
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I'll try to find the video at some point, it's rather hard to describe just how creepy they are. Might take some time. But yeah, you're wrong.

That's bull ◊◊◊◊. This has nothing to do with paradigms. It's a very simple, very straight forward, real world question. Should Bryson be allowed to use the women's bathroom? You are free to use whatever paradigms, whatever definitions you want. But if your ideas cannot handle this very basic real-world questions, then your ideas aren't connected to the real world, and frankly aren't worth discussing.

I reject the idea that Bryson represents all trans-people. Cherry-picking a scary trans-person and using them to represent all trans-people is bigoted fear-mongering and I will not participate.
 
I reject the idea that Bryson represents all trans-people.
Congratulations, you've rejected a straw man. I'm not talking about all trans people. I am specifically and only asking about Bryson. How you handle Bryson does not have to be how you handle anyone else. But if you can't handle doing something with Bryson, then you cannot handle the real world, because Bryson is real, not a hypothetical.

It's looking more and more like you cannot handle the real world.
 

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