Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Thermal]

You seriously think a transwoman that had been raped herself might have 'no experience' or be able to give real support?

 

[d4m10n]

I'd certainly hope you would not be hanging around many people rocking the AL Jolson look.

Presumably this is because you find it offensive for people who grew up without facing oppression on account of their ethnicity to put on makeup which allows them to perform offensive stereotypes of those who did.

Now substitute "sex" in place of "ethnicity" and you'll have a sense of why some women are offended.

(Or, just watch a handful of Mulvaney's girlhood videos.)

 

[Rolfe]

You seriously think a transwoman that had been raped herself might have 'no experience' or be able to give real support?

Yes. He knows nothing about a woman's experience. He needs to seek help tailored to his own experience, which is very different, and then if he feels the call, volunteer to help other transwomen who have been raped. No raped woman wants him anywhere near her, and if he had a shred of actual empathy he'd understand that.

However, precisely none of the perverted men in skirts who have tried to volunteer as counsellors at rape crisis centres have been raped. Not even the ones who took the centres to court to force them to give them access to raped women. And neither have any of the ones who have pretended to be victims so they can sit in on group counselling centres, either.

Thermal, your "see no evil, hear no evil" attitude to this is beyond naif. I find it difficult to believe that any man can reach adulthood and not realise how perverted some men are, the directions these perversions take, and the lengths they will go to satisfy them.

 

[Rolfe]

Presumably this is because you find it offensive for people who grew up without facing oppression on account of their ethnicity to put on makeup which allows them to perform offensive stereotypes of those who did.

Now substitute "sex" in place of "ethnicity" and you'll have a sense of why some women are offended.

(Or, just watch a handful of Mulvaney's girlhood videos.)

You know, I like you better when you're not twisting logic into a pretzel to play Devil's Advocate. Although I appreciate that this has been needed at times, when the trans supporters got tired of the beating they were taking and all beat a retreat at once.

 

[Thermal]

Yes. He knows nothing about a woman's experience. He needs to seek help tailored to his own experience, which is very different, and then if he feels the call, volunteer to help other transwomen who have been raped. No raped woman wants him anywhere near her, and if he had a shred of actual empathy he'd understand that.

However, precisely none of the perverted men in skirts who have tried to volunteer as counsellors at rape crisis centres have been raped. Not even the ones who took the centres to court to force them to give them access to raped women. And neither have any of the ones who have pretended to be victims so they can sit in on group counselling centres, either.

Lotta bold claims in there. I'm guessing no factual support for any of them, like 'precisely zero' having been raped themselves?

Thermal, your "see no evil, hear no evil" attitude to this is beyond naif. I find it difficult to believe that any man can reach adulthood and not realise how perverted some men are, the directions these perversions take, and the lengths they will go to satisfy them.

If you'd drop your belief in your own clairvoyance, it might occur to you that believing people to be on the whole pretty good is vastly different from your stated belief that virtually all men are pervy monsters.

 

[smartcooky]

I actually agree with this. There is no goddamn reason to distinguish between sincere and insincere self-ID.

This is because there is no goddamn reason for males to override sex segregation, regardless of how they identify. When it comes to sports, prisons, locker rooms, bathrooms, representation, etc., it doesn't matter if they're sincere or not.

The only way a male's sincerity in claiming they are female actually matters is that such a person needs therapy, not women's sports.

BOOM!!

 

[Rolfe]

Lotta bold claims in there. I'm guessing no factual support for any of them, like 'precisely zero' having been raped themselves?

If you'd drop your belief in your own clairvoyance, it might occur to you that believing people to be on the whole pretty good is vastly different from your stated belief that virtually all men are pervy monsters.

Don't be so ridiculous. The vast majority of men are not pervy monsters. But some are. These men have recognisable patterns of behaviour, geared towards getting close to the victims they want to perv on. So if you look at people exhibiting these patterns of behaviour, you're going to find them. It's also a fact that the set of men who like to dress in women's clothes contains a higher proportion of pervy monsters than the set of men who don't. For goodness sake wise up.

 

[Mycroft]

You do object to doing research. If you did some research, you would be better informed about the lack of evidence supporting gender-affirmation for minors. Because you refuse to do any substantial research, one must conclude you don't care about the truth of what you say as long as it appears to be true because you can cite institutions backing it.

You can assert anything you like, but if you have no evidence or argument to back it up nobody sensible cares. Rejecting evidence because it contradicts a narrative that you think is progressive is no different from being a creationist and rejecting evidence that contradicts scripture.

Because you have done no reading. I don't need to find anything, I have done the reading. And I also posted evidence which you ignored.

Lol, the bombastic statements are strong with this one!

 

[Mycroft]

Bryson is trans, by definition. On what grounds do you plan to exclude him from that group? And how is it fear mongering to talk about facts? Bryson is real, I didn't make him up.

You don't seem capable of grappling with the reality of these issues.

You don't treat all of any group of people as though they were the worst of that group.

Women's prisons (men's too) are filled with people capable of heinous actions. Once out of prison, how do you plan to exclude them from places where they could do heinous actions in the future?

 

[Rolfe]

You do though. All the time. Speed limits are set to stop bad drivers killing people, but everyone has to obey them. Jeez, literally all laws are formulated to rein in the worst people, but everyone has to abide by them. Should we have no laws against robbery, or murder, because that's treating everyone as if they're a robber or a murderer?

 

[Mycroft]

You do object to doing research.

Nope. I do quite a bit on my own. I objected to going through your haystack for a needle you promised was there somewhere, then you refused to narrow that search to the information we were actually looking for.

It's up to you to make your argument. It's not my job to do it for you.

You can assert anything you like...

And you didn't address any of those assertions.

..but if you have no evidence or argument to back it up nobody sensible cares.

What evidence do I need to assert that terms like "larping" and "cosplay" to describe trans-people are (at best) disrespectful and are hate-terms?

Yes, I understand that people who want to use those hate terms and laugh among themselves don't care. Bullies never do.

 

[d4m10n]

What evidence do I need to assert that terms like "larping" and "cosplay" to describe trans-people are (at best) disrespectful and are hate-terms?

Just for the sake of maintaining my Devil's Advocate reputation, I'm going to agree that these are obviously terms of derogation.

 

[Mycroft]

You do though. All the time. Speed limits are set to stop bad drivers killing people, but everyone has to obey them. Jeez, literally all laws are formulated to rein in the worst people, but everyone has to abide by them. Should we have no laws against robbery, or murder, because that's treating everyone as if they're a robber or a murderer?

We're not talking about robbing or murder. We're talking about going to the bathroom. Even people you deem weird need to go to the bathroom sometimes.

 

[Ziggurat]

You don't treat all of any group of people as though they were the worst of that group.

I'm not asking about all members of a group. I'm asking specifically about Bryson. And you aren't answering.

 

[Ziggurat]

We're not talking about robbing or murder. We're talking about going to the bathroom. Even people you deem weird need to go to the bathroom sometimes.

Are you under the mistaken impression that we think there is nowhere they should be allowed to use the bathroom? Because that's not the case. Since we think there is indeed an appropriate place they can go, what's your point?

 

[Rolfe]

We're not talking about robbing or murder. We're talking about going to the bathroom. Even people you deem weird need to go to the bathroom sometimes.

They can go to the bathroom proper to the sex they actually are. And thank God fasting, they're going to have to start doing that here. This is not singling them out for special treatment, it's holding them to the same rules as everyone else has to abide by.

 

[Mycroft]

Just for the sake of maintaining my Devil's Advocate reputation, I'm going to agree that these are obviously terms of derogation.

Thank you.

I would take it a step further and say that people who use "terms of derogation" are reveling their personal feelings.

 

[Rolfe]

Absolutely. I do not feel kindly towards the people who have been working their socks off to remove my rights for the past ten years. I have had it up to here with the tone police.

 

[Mycroft]

Are you under the mistaken impression that we think there is nowhere they should be allowed to use the bathroom? Because that's not the case. Since we think there is indeed an appropriate place they can go, what's your point?

Make all bathrooms gender neutral then everyone has a place to go to the bathroom.

Any problems with that?

 

[Rolfe]

Everyone already has a place to go to the bathroom, so your suggestion is rejected.