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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Actual quotes, please.

And please address the discrimination you favour against Moslem women.
 
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smartcooky said:
"Trans panic" isn't even a thing.
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Yeah, it is. And we're living in it. People terrified of the boogeyman. Look under your beds! Look in your closets. He/She is out there and they might have used a bathroom you were in.
 
acbytesla said:
You're suggesting I turn a blind eye to hateful acts and laws and pretend that hate has nothing to do with it?
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No, we're suggesting you LISTEN to the concerns of women, and try to understand that they NEED separate safe spaces away from biological males to deal with uniquely female biological emergencies when they occur... and to stop uncritically spouting TRA dogma and talking points.

You keep repeating this idea that we should all "treat people with kindness and humanity" but I see you doing the EXACT opposite towards biological women. You clearly don't give a fat rat's arse about their needs or how they feel!!

acbytesla said:
I suppose saying NAZIs didn't hate Jews when they took their property and made them wear stars on their clothes. How about when they gassed them? Was that motivated by hate? Or was it something else? Should I treat people with kindness and humanity who refuse to treat others that way?
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Well that would be wrong wouldn't it? As a student of 1930s European history, I can tell you that the Nazis absolutely hated the Jews, and blamed them for everything the German people suffered politicitally, economically and militarily.

Anti-Semitism and racial segregation have NO equivalency, nor are they in any way analogous with the dicussion of sex-segregation in public policy - anyone attempting to make such a connection is being profoundly dishonest.
 
Brainster said:
How (practically) can anybody tell that they don't have a penis or testicles? I can tell you from being in a lot of men's rooms that you almost never see anybody else's dick (except where the facility uses a trough for the urinal); I would assume that women see each other's parts in the women's room even less often. All they have to go by is outward appearance.

Like Thermal, I don't particularly care if a transwoman wants to use the restroom alongside me. Unlike him, I don't presume women do or should feel the same way.
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The transwomen know their own genitals.
Rolfe said:
Why would they fear such a thing? It's ludicrous. What are they afraid of? They're men. Everyone can see they're male. Men's facilities have cubicles. What is the problem that is specifically introduced by them having had this surgery?
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So no compassion then.

If a person dressed as a woman goes into a male facility, you don't think they're in danger in any way?
 
Ziggurat said:
No they don't. An estimated 1.5% of people have some disorder of sexual development (DSD), and "intersex" conditions are a subset of DSD's. But DSD's include a lot of conditions which are absolutely NOT "intersex". Deformed penis? That's a DSD. Undescended testicle? That's a DSD. Are these "intersex"? Nope. Hell, even people with "intersex" conditions are still either male or female, even if it's not immediately obvious which they are.

But even the most extreme case of "intersex" conditions doesn't change the binary nature of sex. There are only two sexes in ANY living organism on earth, because there are only ever two types of gametes, and thus only two sexes. There are no third gamete types, and thus no third sex. There are organisms which are sexless, there are organisms which are both sexes, and there are organisms which change sex. But no third sex. And true hermaphrodites and sex changing doesn't happen in humans, or any other mammal species.

People with DSD's absolutely exist. But they are still either male or female. And the trans debate isn't about them anyways. Trans people don't claim to be suffering from DSD's, and people with DSD's don't claim to be trans. These are separate issues, and the attempt to conflate them is always proof of dishonesty.
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In the future when quoting me, I'll thank you not to delete all my words and insert someone else's. It's actually less work for you too.
 
theprestige said:
You keep waffling on your criteria for entitlement.

You say it's not self-ID, but when asked how you distinguish, you say you don't, and leave the claimants alone to do their thing.

So I'm going to keep pressing you on self-ID, until you finally settle on a clear and consistent alternative criteria.

What do you think legitimizes male access to female spaces, if not self-ID?
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Ok, we'll do it again:

First, I don't think there are any sex segregated spaces. I think we have allowed them to all become gender segregated, largely by not paying attention. as the gender crew slipped in. That negates a lot of your question-begging right out of the gate.

Second is that you are begging in some kind of rules. I don't think there are any, nor could there reasonably be without a genital inspector at the door.

To flesh out a little: I have no problem with the way things are now, +/-. Nominally sex segregated with occasional line crossers in both rooms. Where I start to bristle is deying those rare line crossers from either room. Just let them pee. They are welcome in the men's room, and should largely be welcome in the women's, all assuming the obvious caveats about not being harassing and causing trouble.
theprestige said:
This is the question I came into this thread with. This is the question nobody has been able to answer, ever since.

If you have the answer, please share. If not, please stop vilifying everyone who concludes you don't have an answer.
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Are we clear yet?
 
Thermal said:
Ok, we'll do it again:
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What's the point? Its clear you are captured by gender ideology (you repeat all the TRA talking points, and spout all the TRA dogma) so you're not going accept anything anyone says.

Thermal said:
First, I don't think there are any sex segregated spaces.
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Oh, boy, this is just about the most stupid statement you have come up with so far.

I guess all the hundreds of men's and boy's toilets I have used in my 70 years... primary school, secondary school, university, gymnasium restrooms, sports clubrooms, public restrooms, the military, school as a workplace, motor camps, pubs and bars, etc, were all figments of my imagination.

Thermal said:
I think we have allowed them to all become gender segregated, largely by not paying attention. as the gender crew slipped in. That negates a lot of your question-begging right out of the gate.
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Sex and gender are not the same thing.

Thermal said:
Second is that you are begging in some kind of rules. I don't think there are any, nor could there reasonably be without a genital inspector at the door.
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And yet the human race has managed just fine without "genital inspectors" at the doors for the whole of civilized human history.


Thermal said:
To flesh out a little: I have no problem with the way things are now, +/-. Nominally sex segregated with occasional line crossers in both rooms. Where I start to bristle is deying those rare line crossers from either room. Just let them pee.

They are welcome in the men's room, and should largely be welcome in the women's, all assuming the obvious caveats about not being harassing and causing trouble.
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Again, you are only seeing this from a man's perspective. Its clear you don't give a rats arse about the impact it has on women.
 
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acbytesla said:
In the deep South they say those people are just uppity ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊. They need to learn their place.
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For those of us outside the US, this is meaningless.

Women's rights in the rest of the world followed a different trajectory than the civil rights movement in the US. The UK has Mumsnet, not Karens.

Edited by Agatha: 
edited for rule 10 in quote
 
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Aber said:
For those of us outside the US, this is meaningless.

Women's rights in the rest of the world followed a different trajectory than the civil rights movement in the US. The UK has Mumsnet, not Karens.
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You keep forgetting about Americentrism.

The some of Americans on this forum discuss issues like this one as if the USA controlled and set the laws for the rest of the world. We've even seen @Thermal referring back to how things work in his own state when talking about the UK Supreme Court decisions.

Actually, I can see that decision inspiring the SCOTUS to make a similar ruling if a case ever got to them.
 
acbytesla said:
Yeah, it is. And we're living in it. People terrified of the boogeyman. Look under your beds! Look in your closets. He/She is out there and they might have used a bathroom you were in.
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I admit I was wrong. "Trans-panic" is a thing, but it ain't what you are claiming.

"Trans-panic" is specifically, a purported legal defense strategy in which defendants "charged with violent crimes weaponize their victim’s real or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity/expression to reduce or evade criminal liability".

Luckily, this is not what we are talking about here.
 
Rolfe said:
www.spiked-online.com

A trans-activist temper tantrum

Yesterday’s London demo was a carnival of misogyny and public urination.
www.spiked-online.com www.spiked-online.com
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Just to have a poke at this again...

You will struggle to find a better, more clear, or more unequivocal demonstration, that Trans-Rights Activists are EXACTLY the types of people that you, and @Emily's Cat have been saying they are... violent, threatening, scummy people who vandalised a memorial to Millicent Fawcett, one of Britain's greatest women's rights campaigners, with speakers inciting violence against women, and, of all things, to hold a mass urination on the ground at Parliament Square.

That demonstration showed that you and other women like you, have every right to be afraid of these people. They are a thoroughly nasty lot.
 
smartcooky said:
You need to explain exactly what you meant by this...
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Transwomen who've had surgery know they've had surgery, and don't have the equipment to need male facilities, and many of them fear using male spaces because they dress as women.
 
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