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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Hercules56 said:
Naa, just trying to shove them back in the men's room where penises should be.
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In this context I was merely ceding them the mixed-sex set of toilets and petitioning for another set to remain single sex. But even that seems to be too much for some people.
 
smartcooky said:
Unfortunately, no matter how you try to accommodate them with unisex/mixed-sex spaces, there will always be a hard core of TRAs and their disciples who will spurn those accommodations and demand that they be allowed to follow you there in order to maximise your discomfit by waving their lady-dicks in your direction. See the behaviour of Will Thomas in the UPenn locker rooms for a prime example of this behaviour.
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Possibly. But in the context of a conference or convention attended by paid-up members, that ought to be something that could be dealt with. No reason to flat-out deny people any single-sex facilities at all.
 
Thermal said:
You could say that the entitlement of demanding spaces where they dictate who is worthy to enter, when men haven't given a ◊◊◊◊ for generations, might be wearing a little thin, yeah.
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Well well, the mask slips.

You don't remember the time when companies refused to employ women because they didn't have any women's toilets. Or before that, when women could only leave the house for a few hours at a time because there were no women's public toilets. (What brought this to an end was mainly department stores who realised that providing these would attract business.) Demanding bunch, aren't we?

But hey, it's not really my area, but I know a lot of men who strenuously object to women in their intimate spaces. I've seen the same look of disgust on the face of just about every one I've seen asked the question - usually asked by their wives. They will tolerate a temporary invasion in a real emergency, although not gladly, but in general, nope.

So I don't think you should be so ready to throw away an amenity other men value, just because you don't.
 
Rolfe said:
You don't remember the time when companies refused to employ women because they didn't have any women's toilets.
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My first job was at GCHQ. At that time (1970s) the job of Radio Officer was only open to men. The reason given was that some of the remote listening stations at which they worked didn't have women's toilets.
 
Aber said:
The weekday editions which have a very different view of the trans issue than the Observer, which is published on Sundays but uses the Guardian website.
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Odd, because the coverage I've been reading in the Grauniad has been fairly balanced, with views from both extremes as well as more moderate reporting.
 
I think there has been a bit of waking up and smelling of coffee in their offices very recently.
 
A fair number of my lesbian friends have boycotted The Guardian for a few years now. A couple of them in years past were Labour constituency candidates, prime Guardian readership.
They all cancelled their subscriptions over their perceived view that the Guardian was too much in bed with TRAs.
I think there's still a ways to go before they renew.

Still, it's nice to see The Observer taking a very different line.
 
The Guardian group has sold the Observer to Tortoise media and that was Sonia Sodha's last piece for the Observer (as she says at the end).
 
Thermal said:
You could say that the entitlement of demanding spaces where they dictate who is worthy to enter, when men haven't given a ◊◊◊◊ for generations, might be wearing a little thin, yeah.
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And yet people act surprised when I say that modern trans rights activisms is essentially misogynist.
 
Ziggurat said:
I didn’t. The question isn’t whether it’s new, but whether it’s even applicable in this case. Your argument for it is weak.
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So you keep saying.
Ziggurat said:
You explicitly appealed to their feelings.
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Mentioned in passing. You know full and well the primary issue here is discrimination.
Ziggurat said:
They face the same discrimination that I face.

Somehow I carry on.
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Stop, stop, i'm gonna pee myself!

If you believe that the vanilla cishet male faces the same discrimination as a transperson, you are certifiable.
Ziggurat said:
Race isn’t equivalent to sex. Racial segregation is not justified, sex segregation is. The logic of your argument would invalidate all sex segregation, but you don’t actually believe that, do you?
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Not equivalent, and dishonest of you to say so. It is sometimes analogous, and you damn right well know the difference.
Ziggurat said:
Your arguments aren’t serious, so I don’t take them seriously.
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Great. So we done? I know you have to deal with that discrimination you face that is the same as a transwoman faces. I think I peed a little again.
Ziggurat said:
Then why can’t transwomen just use the men’s room? You claim you don’t care what traits people like, so why can’t they just put up with going to the bathroom around men?
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She can. They do. I have been saying so for pages and pages. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
Ziggurat said:
You have no consistency.
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You are looking for keywords to knee jerk to without thinking about them, so yeah I can see how you'd reach that conclusion.
Ziggurat said:
Ah. Now we’re getting somewhere. Now the truth starts to emerge. Now it starts to make sense.

You think women are too entitled, and this is their comeuppance.
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Reading bogging you down again? Yes, you guys have been screaming from the rooftops for years that women are entitled to a uniquely segregated space.

Wait... were you and the pinhead brigade unaware that entitlements can be perfectly legitimate? Apparently you aren't. Shall I forward you some reading to get you up to speed?

And with all of the disagreements and all aside, Happy Easter to all on the thread.
 
Rolfe said:
Well well, the mask slips.

You don't remember the time when companies refused to employ women because they didn't have any women's toilets. Or before that, when women could only leave the house for a few hours at a time because there were no women's public toilets. (What brought this to an end was mainly department stores who realised that providing these would attract business.) Demanding bunch, aren't we?
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Not the issue, and you know it. I do admire the irony of you saying that you were denied toilet facilities, while you are loudly demanding that you can deny toilet facilities to others.
Rolfe said:
But hey, it's not really my area, but I know a lot of men who strenuously object to women in their intimate spaces. I've seen the same look of disgust on the face of just about every one I've seen asked the question - usually asked by their wives. They will tolerate a temporary invasion in a real emergency, although not gladly, but in general, nope.

So I don't think you should be so ready to throw away an amenity other men value, just because you don't.
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I'm sure there are many, many bigoted men who share that view. They probably won't tolerate transwomen in the men's room if they are at that hard core bigot level, though.

I don't know how else to explain this to you. It's not complicated. I don't care what bigots want. I care about what is reasonable.
 
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