Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

[Rolfe]

I know too many trans individuals both male and female. To me they are just people trying to be themselves. That others see them differently is no different in my mind as any other prejudice. Sometimes, the cover doesn't match the book.

Why don't you want trans-identifying men peeing next to you in the men's room? That seems much more like prejudice in my mind. To push men out of men's spaces because of what they choose to wear, how they choose to present. They have as much right to be there as you have. Accept them.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm sorry, but that is 100%. If you take the definition of sexual assault as anything a man might find himself in court over, we've all had it. (Look at the indictments in the Alex Salmond trial some time.)

Not every woman has been raped. Not every woman has been assaulted to the point of physical harm. But I flat guarantee you that every woman has been the victim of unsolicited and unwanted sexual touching by a man. I think I'm unusual in that it only happened twice to me. (Maybe three times - once I was quite little and I may have been over-reacting to a genuinely avuncular hug from someone who wasn't my uncle, but even without knowing what sexual assault was, that felt like it to me.) Most women have a list so long they don't really keep count.

Realistically, I agree with you, but I'm going with published stats on this.

You're right though - the frequency of unsolicited touching of intimate parts, or inappropriate touching without consent is so commonplace that many females don't even count them. If you ask "have you been sexually assaulted" a lot of females will say no. If you ask "has someone ever grabbed your breast or butt without consent" pretty much every one of them will say yes. But it happens enough that if it didn't cause bruising or injury, many sort of file it away as part of the cost of being female.

 

[angrysoba]

Well how the ◊◊◊◊ would you know? You're the one asserting that females can't distinguish males from females anyway, so where do you get off making baseless assumption on something so flimsy as a user name on the internet? Especially when Rolfe's user title literally specifies adult human female.

That is actually why I requested the title change (from "Anti-homoeopathy illuminati member"). Because I realised that my user-name was ambiguous, that not all cat avatars are cat ladies, and I wanted people in this thread to be in no doubt that I was female.

So much for that good intention.

Yeah, lots of ambiguous usernames and avatars, but as you say, Rolfe, you tightened up that loophole. But it's cases like this that make the whole "pronouns in bio" seem less absurd than it's often made out to be.

 

[Rolfe]

You're right though - the frequency of unsolicited touching of intimate parts, or inappropriate touching without consent is so commonplace that many females don't even count them. If you ask "have you been sexually assaulted" a lot of females will say no. If you ask "has someone ever grabbed your breast or butt without consent" pretty much every one of them will say yes. But it happens enough that if it didn't cause bruising or injury, many sort of file it away as part of the cost of being female.

That is exactly right. At one time I would have said I'd never been sexually assaulted either. I didn't think a strange man sitting next to me in a cinema and putting his hand up my skirt was sexual assault. I sort of did realise that a hospital doctor coming into my isolation room, opening my pyjama top and doing a full breast examination, in complete silence with no asking for permission, no saying what he was going to do, and no explanation for why it was necessary and no chaperone was sexual assault, but I wasn't physically hurt so it didn't count, right?

It's odd that I remember that hug from the male visitor when I was maybe six or seven though. It was too tight a hug and it felt wrong, and I wriggled and squealed to be let loose, and my parents remonstrated with me for being impolite. I pointed to a deep scratch his signet ring had left on my finger as my excuse for fighting him off. But it wasn't that, really.

Contrast that with the trans cry-bullies who whine that "misgendering" is "literal violence".

 

[theprestige]

Yeah, lots of ambiguous usernames and avatars, but as you say, Rolfe, you tightened up that loophole. But it's cases like this that make the whole "pronouns in bio" seem less absurd than it's often made out to be.

I have a dream that nobody will give a single flying ◊◊◊◊ about pronouns on the internet. Why should I care if someone thinks I present as a woman? Nothing wrong with that. It's not an insult. It doesn't offend my sense of self. Nothing changes about the quality of my ideas or the strength of my arguments.

If you think I'm a woman today and a man tomorrow, then I have David Bowie for company.

Rolfe is making a point about her pronouns because the whole thing has gotten so politically charged. Gender should be irrelevant. The absurdity lies in the fact that some clowns decided to make it consummate. Dismiss that nonsense for what it is, and the whole absurd problem goes away.

 

[Rolfe]

Yeah, lots of ambiguous usernames and avatars, but as you say, Rolfe, you tightened up that loophole. But it's cases like this that make the whole "pronouns in bio" seem less absurd than it's often made out to be.

Don't be naive. There are perfectly good time-honoured ways to indicate whether you're male or female in correspondence without demanding compelled speech in your bio. (As my Christian name is unfamiliar to many people outwith Scotland, I've been doing this all my life.) The solemn announcement of one's pronouns, often when actually physically present, is a sign of allegiance to the trans cult. It either means that you are the opposite sex to the gender of the pronouns you're demanding, or it's a huge flag declaring that you're woke and you're on board with this nonsense.

Companies and organisations don't enforce it on staff because nobody knows which sex someone called Margaret is likely to be. It's because they want the Stonewall points for enforcing compliance.

Rolfe is making a point about her pronouns because the whole thing has gotten so politically charged. Gender should be irrelevant. The absurdity lies in the fact that some clowns decided to make it consummate. Dismiss that nonsense for what it is, and the whole absurd problem goes away.

And I'm not making any point about pronouns. I was making a point about my actual sex, because I thought it was relevant enough to this thread not to be left as an ambiguous point. I couldn't give a tuppenny damn what pronouns anyone uses to refer to me.

 

[Hercules56]

I know too many trans individuals both male and female. To me they are just people trying to be themselves. That others see them differently is no different in my mind as any other prejudice. Sometimes, the cover doesn't match the book.

But they're NOT trying to be themselves. They're trying to CHANGE themselves, and demand that I acknowledge that change.

Why should I have to comply with the whole "Im just a woman living in a man's body" nonsense?

Why should I have to comply with the whole "If I am a man who dresses like a girl, you have to call me madam" nonsense?

Do what you want, live how you like, just dont tell me how Im supposed to talk, especially when Im not baking you a cake or making your wedding sign.

 

[acbytesla]

Do you think that females have no justification for being wary of males in spaces where we're naked or vulnerable?

Wary, yes. But it doesn't justify all this virulent hate. This thread is without question, the most commented on, least important thread on this website.

 

[smartcooky]

But here you are, making the malicious assumption that because smartcooky wants females to be able to access single-sex shelters, they want males to have no services at all. And you put words in their mouth that they did not say, nor were even reasonably suggested by any of their posts.

Again, quoted for truth

 

[Emily's Cat]

Wary, yes. But it doesn't justify all this virulent hate. This thread is without question, the most commented on, least important thread on this website.

Dude, you waltz in here and proceed to call a bunch of us hateful transphobes, then proceed to insist that the females who oppose males having the right to enter spaces where we're naked or vulnerable are overreacting and making a big deal out of nothing because it totally doesn't actually affect any of us, and a pile of other dismissive horse ◊◊◊◊ without actually bothering to read or engage... and then when we point out that you're out of your tree, you double down and insist it's all "virulent hate"

Nobody is forcing you to post here, you are perfectly free to stay out of it. But to come in with no intent to actually consider the discussion and the debate and just start insulting people left and right - dude, that's some hateful behavior.

 

[Hercules56]

Wary, yes. But it doesn't justify all this virulent hate. This thread is without question, the most commented on, least important thread on this website.

I dont see much hate here, except against people who want sex segregation in changing rooms/restrooms.

 

[acbytesla]

Dude, you waltz in here and proceed to call a bunch of us hateful transphobes, then proceed to insist that the females who oppose males having the right to enter spaces where we're naked or vulnerable are overreacting and making a big deal out of nothing because it totally doesn't actually affect any of us, and a pile of other dismissive horse ◊◊◊◊ without actually bothering to read or engage... and then when we point out that you're out of your tree, you double down and insist it's all "virulent hate"

Nobody is forcing you to post here, you are perfectly free to stay out of it. But to come in with no intent to actually consider the discussion and the debate and just start insulting people left and right - dude, that's some hateful behavior.

There's a reason for that, Many of you are. You think you are beyond hate. I assure you, few of us are.

These individuals make up a very tiny number of individuals. Most of who's biological sex you would be unsure of unless you were face to face with their genitals. I for the most part stay out of this forum because I see far too many people I usually respect making posts that I don't.

What probably bothers me the most is just how often this thread is commented on. As if the trans issue was of great importance.

It's not.

 

[Hercules56]

Dude, you waltz in here and proceed to call a bunch of us hateful transphobes, then proceed to insist that the females who oppose males having the right to enter spaces where we're naked or vulnerable are overreacting and making a big deal out of nothing because it totally doesn't actually affect any of us, and a pile of other dismissive horse ◊◊◊◊ without actually bothering to read or engage... and then when we point out that you're out of your tree, you double down and insist it's all "virulent hate"

Nobody is forcing you to post here, you are perfectly free to stay out of it. But to come in with no intent to actually consider the discussion and the debate and just start insulting people left and right - dude, that's some hateful behavior.

Don't you get it? Once again, like always, you ladies are just overreacting about just one more thing. Its like a hormonal thing or something. Or that time of the month.

Don't worry, we men are the more rational & logical sex, and can show you the way to behave. Not bound by your crazy emotions.



(Sarcasm mode off)

 

[Hercules56]

My niece is 11 years old. She doesn't want penises in the pool changing room.

Is she a bigot?

 

[theprestige]

There's a reason for that, Many of you are. You think you are beyond hate. I assure you, few of us are.

These individuals make up a very tiny number of individuals. Most of who's biological sex you would be unsure of unless you were face to face with their genitals. I for the most part stay out of this forum because I see far too many people I usually respect making posts that I don't.

What probably bothers me the most is just how often this thread is commented on. As if the trans issue was of great importance.

It's not.

Mutilation of minor children in the name of anti science ideology seems like an issue of huge importance to me. Even if it's only "a very tiny number" of mutilated children.

Imposing a chilling effect on safe spaces for women also seems like an issue of huge importance.

 

[acbytesla]

Mutilation of minor children in the name of anti science ideology seems like an issue of huge importance to me. Even if it's only "a very tiny number" of mutilated children.

Imposing a chilling effect on safe spaces for women also seems like an issue of huge importance.

How many children do you know of who have had gender surgery?

 

[Brainster]

There's a reason for that, Many of you are. You think you are beyond hate. I assure you, few of us are.

These individuals make up a very tiny number of individuals.

It's a very curious argument for a liberal to make that a minority group is small enough to ignore.

 

[acbytesla]

It's a very curious argument for a liberal to make that a minority group is small enough to ignore.

Which minority group? Women while certainly have seen their share of bigotry, they are not a minority. Trans individuals definitely are.

 

[Hercules56]

Which minority group? Women while certainly have seen their share of bigotry, they are not a minority. Trans individuals definitely are.

Women are a historically oppresed group. Wanting to take away their safe spaces and fill them with men isnt helpful.

 

[theprestige]

How many children do you know of who have had gender surgery?

I'm talking about a practice we should all oppose before it becomes mainstream. A practice that is advocated by trans rights activists.

Anyway, I'll put you down for "no irreversible trans affirming treatment for minors". Are you feeling like a transphobe yet?