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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

Hercules56 said:
What if most women simply dont feel comfortable with beards and penises and testicles in the changing room with them?

Why do you so easily and quickly disregard their needs and feelings?

Really seems like you believe the needs of men who think are women, outweigh the needs of real women.

Is that what this is really about? Making sure men stay in charge and men get their way, in ALL situations?
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I know it's challenging to keep it straight, and the discussion lends itself to some contradictory positions, but Thermal has been clear that support sex-separated intimate spaces.
 
theprestige said:
No. Absolutely not.
You lie. You lie. You lie.
I dismiss women's clothing as a definition of womanhood, as sexist nonsense.

You're smart enough to have grasped this. You're wise enough to understand how evil it is, to call a woman a man, if she puts on trousers, or to call a man a woman if he wears his hair long.

And yet you still put forward stereotypical attire as the hallmark of gender identity.

And yet you lie about my response. You lie.

Trans rights activism depends heavily on lies perpetuated by useful idiots against their better judgement. I just didn't expect to see you on that side of the line. What happened to your better judgement?
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The only thing that surprises me about your post is that you appear to be surprised.
 
Thermal said:
Eta: also, Merager is said to loathe "they/them" as applied to... Merager. You intentionally misgendering there, Skippy? ;)
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I will absolutely and always intentionally "misgender" a male sex pest trying to hide behind gender identity politics to avoid condemnation. Merager can go ◊◊◊◊ himself right in his lady anus.
 
Thermal said:
So no, the specifics of the Wi spa were not at issue on the wider point.
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Don't be daft, we were arguing about Wi Spa.

If you've a legal right to be nude in a spa then you aren't committing a crime merely by being nude in a spa.

(Add in details about specific rooms or floors as needed, based on relevant CA laws.)
 
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Emily's Cat said:
I know this is frustrating, and I appreciate your continued support... But historically, Thermal does not engage in a dishonest fashion.

I think it's worth trying to give some grace here, I think Thermal is genuinely trying to engage in good faith. For those who haven't been going through this for a decade with us, it's confusing... and any new entrant ends up with a pile on.
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I'm not seeing it. We get this anguished "But I only want everybody to be happy," but when it inevitably turns out that giving the trans lobby what it wants makes women unhappy, somehow that isn't important. It's actually only trans-identifying men he wants to ensure are happy.
 
Hercules56 said:
That's just silly.

Women are human adult females, girls are human child females.
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In Scots (and English) law it's specifically stated in the definitions that "a woman is a female of any age", to avoid needlessly repetitive language, and because that's how it's normally understood when a simple binary men/women split is enforced.
 
Thermal said:
I clearly do not. Engaging discussion, innit?

Wasn't that long ago that a majority of white people wanted black people segregated, and for similar reasons....
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Meanwhile race is a real thing that a person cannot control. You are born that way. You will die that way. Nothing can ever change it. You cannot hide it.

Gender dysphoria is all in your head. They can decide on Monday to dress like a man and on Wednesday to dress like a woman. They can choose to adjust what they look like based on the situation of the day. They can decide to look like a man on Tuesday and a woman on Thursday.

The comparison is absurd to the point of racist. Black people do not have the amazing options that transgender people do. And I don't think they appreciate your lazy comparison.
 
Emily's Cat said:
The state passed a law that made it illegal for any company or service to discriminate on the basis of self-declared gender identity. CA created a situation in which it was illegal for Wi Spa to prohibit males from using the female side of the spa if those males said that they were transgender.

According to you, NJ has done the same thing with respect to bathrooms at least.
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Not "according to me". I linked the NJ government website for gender questions, where they spell it out in excruciating, uncompromising detail, right down to the high school showers.
Emily's Cat said:
By making it law that people can use restrooms that align with their gender identity, they have made it illegal for businesses to sex-segregate bathrooms.

If it were a mixed sex nudity casual space it wouldn't be an issue at all. In a space that has historically been single sex, it becomes an issue when someone of the opposite sex shows up naked.

I suspect you're thinking about this from a very male perspective, Thermal. I get it - you're a heterosexual male, and it's not like you have a female brain inside your head. So let me fill in some gaps for you ;).

Generally speaking, heterosexual males are perfectly fine with seeing females naked. There are some occasional outliers, but Ron White had it pretty much on the nose... males want to see all the boobs. Big one, little ones, lopsided ones, firm ones, squishy ones, ski slopes, and snoopies. It might be a bit shocking to find out that generally speaking, females don't feel the same way. We generally do NOT want to see males naked. Sometimes, some of us might want to see some specific few males naked, but we generally don't want to see them all. Most of the time, we'd like to see as few naked males as we can manage.

Similarly, being seen while naked by the opposite sex isn't identical either. Generally, most males don't really want to be seen naked by a bunch of strange females without their express consent... but it's also not something that generally makes males feel endangered or vulnerable. Embarrassed maybe, self conscious a lot of times, sure. But it doesn't generally make trigger your fight/flight reflex. On the other hand, most females are made extremely uncomfortable and exposed if they're seen naked by a bunch of males without our express consent.
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And of course, I am aware of all that, and more. The hitch I'm having is that the courts are right. In a place of public accommodation, you don't get to draw those exclusionary lines to your liking. That's the rub.

You want to get naked with the gals at home? Knock yourself out. But in the public sphere, your personal.
preferences are not really being asked for. Businesses are required to not discriminate.

So what do we do in the brave new world? Changing rooms and showers are easy. They are entirely optional, so if you don't like "those people" being let in, don't go. The places will likely not survive on the trans business, and go under. Meanwhile, keep lobbying for restoration of exclusionary spaces.

Rest rooms are somewhat less optional. Fortunately, we have data on their use by transpeople, and lo and behold: crime did not increase at all.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
I know this is frustrating, and I appreciate your continued support... But historically, Thermal does not engage in a dishonest fashion.

I think it's worth trying to give some grace here, I think Thermal is genuinely trying to engage in good faith. For those who haven't been going through this for a decade with us, it's confusing... and any new entrant ends up with a pile on.
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Sorry EC, but I'm long past the point of giving him grace.
 
Thermal said:
Not "according to me". I li ked the NJ government website for gender questions, where they spel it out in excruciating, uncompromising detail, right down to the high school showers.

And of course, I am aware of all that, and more. The Hitch im.having is that the courts are right. In a place of public accommodation, you don't get to draw those exclusionary lines to your liking. That's the rub.

You want to get naked with the gals at home? Knock yourself out. But in the public sphere, your persomal.preferences are not really being asked for. Businesses are required to not discriminate.

So what do we do in the brave new world? Changing rooms and showers are easy. They are entirely optional, so if you don't like "those people" being let in, don't go. The places will likely not survive on the trans business, and go under. Meanwhile, keep.lobbying for restoration of exclusionary spaces.

Rest rooms are somewhat less optional. Fortunately, we have data on their use by transpeople, and lo and behold: crime did not increase at all.
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Those stupid CA laws clearly violate the Civil Rights Act and will be struck down.

Being a woman is not something you can simply "declare" and therefore gain access to womens' safe spaces.
 
Thermal said:
Not "according to me". I li ked the NJ government website for gender questions, where they spel it out in excruciating, uncompromising detail, right down to the high school showers.

And of course, I am aware of all that, and more. The Hitch im.having is that the courts are right. In a place of public accommodation, you don't get to draw those exclusionary lines to your liking. That's the rub.

You want to get naked with the gals at home? Knock yourself out. But in the public sphere, your persomal.preferences are not really being asked for. Businesses are required to not discriminate.

So what do we do in the brave new world? Changing rooms and showers are easy. They are entirely optional, so if you don't like "those people" being let in, don't go. The places will likely not survive on the trans business, and go under. Meanwhile, keep.lobbying for restoration of exclusionary spaces.

Rest rooms are somewhat less optional. Fortunately, we have data on their use by transpeople, and lo and behold: crime did not increase at all.
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You want everybody to be happy. But if any woman indicates that she isn't at all happy with the unilateral change in the fundamental rules of society that has been imposed on her, your only retort is, suck it up bigot. There are certainly a lot more women who are extremely unhappy about men intruding into their single-sex spaces than there are men who actually want to do this, so if it's the happiness of the greatest number you're aiming for, you seem to be aiming in the wrong direction.

Until about five minutes ago, women's single-sex spaces excluded males. That was the entire point and it was regarded as entirely reasonable, indeed proper. If the occasional male tried it on, women might tacitly let it pass, but they had the ability to protest and have him removed if they didn't. A change was made without consulting women.

Your solution to women's happiness appears to be that women should give up what they had and self-exclude. Why shouldn't the men self-exclude, I ask?

You asked earlier what the harm was that you weren't seeing, in letting males into formerly female spaces. I pointed out that self-exclusion was a huge harm, that women were not able to make use of the facilities that had previously been theirs, because they didn't want to be confronted by a cosplaying man. You seemed not to understand, but now we see that you do understand. It's the outcome you want.
 
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We men have our own locker rooms and our own changing rooms and our own showers. Now, thanks to the trans thing, we also have access to all the ladies' stuff too.

Men clearly rule the world.
 
Hercules56 said:
The comparison is absurd to the point of racist. Black people do not have the amazing options that transgender people do. And I don't think they appreciate your lazy comparison.
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The far left has this pathology that sacralizes those deemed "marginalized" and excuses any bad behavior by such groups. So what to do when the "marginalized" group is a bunch of narcissistic jerks? Well, tell girls and women that male paraphilla is a fundamental right and to oppose it makes them nasty bigots.
 
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varwoche said:
@Mycroft This went unanswered. Maybe that was due to the many pages of activity. I assume the answer to the highlighted question is yes.
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You're not the only one to have assumed that. It seems this fancy that if I don't accept one extreme then I must adopt the other is common.
 
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