Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

On the topic that there are countries that have solved the alleged problem without (to my knowledge) any polls at all:
Dansk spillested indfører kønsneutrale toiletter (EkstraBladet.dk, Feb 26, 2019)
Danish music venue introduces gender-neutral toilets
"Anyone can use this toilet, regardless of gender identity or expression"
And since K.B. Hallen doesn't export anything to MAGA land, I assume it can't be hit by tariffs ...
 
Thermal said:
Because we understand that not everybody fits on the m/w binary anymore. It's a thing, and we are theoretically not big on '◊◊◊◊ off tranny' as policy.
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But we do understand that everybody fits the male/female binary, and even those for whom it's difficult to determine without further investigation are still only male or female.

And we're also theoretically not big on "◊◊◊◊ you females" as a policy, except we've seen it enacted over the past several years pretty flagrantly.
 
Thermal said:
Yup. And gender is not a biological issue, so pretty irrelevant.

Agreed. Those wheelchair bound people can just "walk it off" too, amirite?...
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Pretty silly and dishonest to compare gender dysphoria (psychological state) to a clear physical handicap.
 
smartcooky said:
You will never get an honest answer to this from him. He will dodge.
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I know this is frustrating, and I appreciate your continued support... But historically, Thermal does not engage in a dishonest fashion.

I think it's worth trying to give some grace here, I think Thermal is genuinely trying to engage in good faith. For those who haven't been going through this for a decade with us, it's confusing... and any new entrant ends up with a pile on.
 
Thermal said:
Because we understand that not everybody fits on the m/w binary anymore. It's a thing, and we are theoretically not big on '◊◊◊◊ off tranny' as policy...
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What if most women simply dont feel comfortable with beards and penises and testicles in the changing room with them?

Why do you so easily and quickly disregard their needs and feelings?

Really seems like you believe the needs of men who think are women, outweigh the needs of real women.

Is that what this is really about? Making sure men stay in charge and men get their way, in ALL situations?
 
Thermal said:
Equating trans folk with violent criminals is getting a bit on the nose.
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What about analogizing men who think they are women, to people bound to a wheel chair due to physical disability?

Do you really think a mental state is the same as loosing a leg, being paralyzed, suffering from muscular atrophy, etc?
 
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dann said:
On the topic that there are countries that have solved the alleged problem without (to my knowledge) any polls at all:
Dansk spillested indfører kønsneutrale toiletter (EkstraBladet.dk, Feb 26, 2019)
Danish music venue introduces gender-neutral toilets
"Anyone can use this toilet, regardless of gender identity or expression"
And since K.B. Hallen doesn't export anything to MAGA land, I assume it can't be hit by tariffs ...
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Yes, yes, unisex bathrooms in one Scandinavian nightclub has totally solved the issue of trans rights to override sex segregation in sports and prisons whenever they want. /s

Pull the other one. It's got twigs and berries on.
 
Emily's Cat said:
It's NOT crystal clear though. I don't consent to ceding the word "woman" to represent feelings inside the head of a male. I reserve the word "woman" to represent a sexually mature female human being. I use it in exactly the same way I use the word mare or hen or vixen. It's the species-specific term for a mature female.

It's also necessary to be specific repeatedly. For example, when we see a sign that says "women's locker room" almost all of us recognize that the term "woman" is being used to represent female human beings. It is NOT being used to represent nebulous gender identities.
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Note that you just said above that woman means adult human female. That would mean minors aren't welcome, and it's an adult-only space. See, you're just as imprecise with the terminology.
Emily's Cat said:
But some posters will retconn that pre-gender-self-id term into magically meaning that any male who says magic words is naturally expected to use that locker.

Furthermore, this thread isn't dedicated to the concept of gender. It's largely dedicated to the conflict between self-declared gender identity and sex. And quite a number of us fall on the side of sex taking precedence.
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Why do you suppose the federal government and practically every state has defined gender along my definitions then? Why has virtually every court ruling said "hey ISF anti-trans crowd: you're wrong by legal standards"?
 
Hercules56 said:
What about analogizing men who think they are women, to people bound to a wheel chair due to physical disability?

Do you really think a mental state is the same as loosing a leg, being paralyzed, suffering from muscular atrophy, etc?
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No. Analogies are for comparing a principle, not making an anal retentive dissection.
 
Thermal said:
Note that you just said above that woman means adult human female. That would mean minors aren't welcome, and it's an adult-only space. See, you're just as imprecise with the terminology...
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That's just silly.

Women are human adult females, girls are human child females.
 
Hercules56 said:
What if most women simply dont feel comfortable with beards and penises and testicles in the changing room with them?

Why do you so easily and quickly disregard their needs and feelings?

Really seems like you believe the needs of men who think are women, outweigh the needs of real women.

Is that what this is really about? Making sure men stay in charge and men get their way, in ALL situations?
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Because I respect the courts and their findings, to some degree, and I'm not a fan of ostracizing minorities. On that point, we obviously disagree.
 
Thermal said:
Because I respect the courts and their findings, to some degree, and I'm not a fan of ostracizing minorities. On that point, we obviously disagree.
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Transgender persons are not a minority group. No more than people who are left-handed. At least not according to federal law.
 
Thermal said:
Isn't it simply a matter for them to sex segregate their spa, though? The state should be fine with that, right?
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The state passed a law that made it illegal for any company or service to discriminate on the basis of self-declared gender identity. CA created a situation in which it was illegal for Wi Spa to prohibit males from using the female side of the spa if those males said that they were transgender.

According to you, NJ has done the same thing with respect to bathrooms at least. By making it law that people can use restrooms that align with their gender identity, they have made it illegal for businesses to sex-segregate bathrooms.
Thermal said:
Eta: in a 'nudity casual' space, what exactly is the issue with seeing men? You're feeling good about showing the labia to any strange women, but to a guy is just weird?
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If it were a mixed sex nudity casual space it wouldn't be an issue at all. In a space that has historically been single sex, it becomes an issue when someone of the opposite sex shows up naked.

I suspect you're thinking about this from a very male perspective, Thermal. I get it - you're a heterosexual male, and it's not like you have a female brain inside your head. So let me fill in some gaps for you ;).

Generally speaking, heterosexual males are perfectly fine with seeing females naked. There are some occasional outliers, but Ron White had it pretty much on the nose... males want to see all the boobs. Big one, little ones, lopsided ones, firm ones, squishy ones, ski slopes, and snoopies. It might be a bit shocking to find out that generally speaking, females don't feel the same way. We generally do NOT want to see males naked. Sometimes, some of us might want to see some specific few males naked, but we generally don't want to see them all. Most of the time, we'd like to see as few naked males as we can manage.

Similarly, being seen while naked by the opposite sex isn't identical either. Generally, most males don't really want to be seen naked by a bunch of strange females without their express consent... but it's also not something that generally makes males feel endangered or vulnerable. Embarrassed maybe, self conscious a lot of times, sure. But it doesn't generally make trigger your fight/flight reflex. On the other hand, most females are made extremely uncomfortable and exposed if they're seen naked by a bunch of males without our express consent.
 
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