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Is Jesus's "this generation will certainly not pass" valid grounds for scepticism?

Poem said:
Christians in name. Mat. 7:21-23.
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Brilliant! Your “No True Scotsman” has just declared most Christians in the world not to be Christians. Perhaps you should realise that there is a difference between theory and practice.

If everyone were a true Christian, everyone would have given everything, including their shirts to the poor.
 
Uh-oh, we have opened a new can of worms! Now Poem is in the unenviable position of deciding which bits of Christianity are necessary and sufficient to follow to be called a Christian. Nothing unsettling has ever happened when this question is taken seriously.

IMO the least serious but best feeling conclusion is that anyone who tries to be Christlike is a real Christian, though that does leave a whoooole lot of people who think of themselves as Good Christians pretty solidly out. In that paradigm I don't think any soldiers get to count as Christian, except maybe in a 'render unto Ceaser' kinda way for conscripts.
 
Lithrael said:
Uh-oh, we have opened a new can of worms! Now Poem is in the unenviable position of deciding which bits of Christianity are necessary and sufficient to follow to be called a Christian. Nothing unsettling has ever happened when this question is taken seriously.

IMO the least serious but best feeling conclusion is that anyone who tries to be Christlike is a real Christian, though that does leave a whoooole lot of people who think of themselves as Good Christians pretty solidly out. In that paradigm I don't think any soldiers get to count as Christian, except maybe in a 'render unto Ceaser' kinda way for conscripts.
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When you say 'tries to be Christ-like' what do you mean exactly?
 
Poem said:
When you say 'tries to be Christ-like' what do you mean exactly?
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Just what it says on the tin. People who read the sermony bits of the NT and try to follow the spirit/letter of how Christ acted/wanted them to act. What people ususlly mean by that phrase. As opposed to trying to be a prophet/cult leader and get martyred, that's not what I meant!
 
Lithrael said:
Just what it says on the tin. People who read the sermony bits of the NT and try to follow the spirit/letter of how Christ acted/wanted them to act. What people ususlly mean by that phrase. As opposed to trying to be a prophet/cult leader and get martyred, that's not what I meant!
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Really. Why does the question have to be asked?
Everyone knows what Jesus would do, at least in theory.

If you have to stop and ask what would Jesus do, why bother?
 
theprestige said:
Islam?
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Nope. Prejudice against Jews by Christians significantly predates Islamic antisemitism. It was the "wicked Jews" who killed Jesus, remember?
theprestige said:
Humans being bigoted dicks in pretty much every period of human history?
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Civilisations develop. Our notions of what's morally acceptable and what isn't have matured over time. Hence the Bible's endorsement of slavery. Likewise, our knowledge of other cultures has improved (even Americans now seem to have some inkling that there are other countries besides their own). "Humans being bigoted dicks" stems from a natural fear of the other, of outsiders. As we grow, that is lessening: overt racism is generally frowned upon in many parts of the world (with the possible exception of America, where it seems to be quite the rage these days.)
theprestige said:
Very few of the troubles in the world are actually Jesus's fault.
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A typically controversial statement from you.
There are two choices here. First one, Jesus wasn't the real son of god, and the NT is just cobbled together cobblers. The Bible has been used as justification for countless horrors throughout the ages, so the idea of Jesus is responsible. Christianity is responsible.
Secondly, Jesus actually was real, and was the son of god, in which case his passive acceptance of the crimes committed in his name is unforgivable. To sit back and watch millions and millions of people die because they didn't understand or in some way exploited your message, whilst having the power to end the slaughter in a second, is the act of a fiend.
 
steenkh said:
Yes. I was always aware of this problem, and the usual explanations of “God works in mysterious ways”, or “the child that died under horrible circumstances is now with God, so all was for the better” always struck me as unsatisfactory, if not cruel, especially for a triple-omni god.
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My position is similar. Augustine focused on the fall in the Eden story - but how it's possible to link rebellion against God to natural disasters is difficult to comprehend.

There is always the issue of free will which must be necessary if the biblical account is to be taken seriously. Certainly it's intuitive that there is a fallout when even just one person treats another badly...so moral 'evil' is easier to understand.

Paul's words are of interest:

Romans 8:18-22
18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time
 
arthwollipot said:
To be fair, that's exactly what my church did.
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That is what most sects do, and that is why we have had religious wars. But Poem says he is no longer a Christian, so it is odd if he still thinks just a tiny fraction of Christians are actual Christians. Unless of course, he still thinks that his old sect is the only true Christian sect.
 
arthwollipot said:
So?
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The notion that some here have vociferously expressed that belief in Jesus is somehow akin to intellectual suicide is not supported by such examples. Many consider Heisenberg to have been on the same level as Einstein (who himself was a deist).

Sure, it does not prove any truth - but it is significant.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
Christians raped the New World and slaughtered those who did not fall in line.
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Which teaching of Christ encouraged them to do so?

On the other hand we know that God commanded his chosen people to kill all those in the promised land:

Deut. 20:16-18
16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.
 
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